In Philadelphia, can you feel a difference between someone from a NJ suburb vs one from a PA suburb? (York: 2015, high school)

[frankgn87]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

I agree with respect to aggregate differences regarding affluence and heritage. I think the idea that PA suburbanites are noticeably staid and frumpy in comparison to their wild, raucous NJ counterparts is BS.

absolutely. People are people. If you closed your eyes and opened then up in my neighborhood I guarantee you would not be able to tell what sate (pa or nj) you're in

[frankgn87]

Originally Posted by soug

One thing I've noticed is people from the PA burbs just say they are from Philly while people from the NJ burbs (most of the time) say South Jersey. I actually prefer the second, because it allows for a subidentity within the overall region.

.

This is true..

South Jersey has more of a named geographical area then the pa burbs for some reason

[soug]

Originally Posted by Summersm343

It's important for you to know, if you don't know already, that other countries do not have suburbs. Well essentially...

They aren't "suburbs" the way Americans think of "suburbs"

Suburbs in other countries are essentially fringe areas of the city much like the Far Northeast and Northwest parts of Philadelphia. In other countries however, the poor live in these fringe neighborhoods while the wealthy and middle class live in the actual city.

I find it very interesting that it is the complete opposite in the majority of American cities.

With that said, I think most american's and immigrants alike tend to think that the suburbs are essentially a part of the city, rather then separate entities. That would automatically include the PA suburbs of Philly when talking about Philly. Now, because Philly has suburbs in NJ, DE and Maryland, it is simpler to think of those suburbs as separate entities. Since a city cannot sit in multiple states, there is a very distinct border between the two (especially the Delaware River between Philly and NJ). This makes it easier to specifically identify with where you are from.

What is the border between Philadelphia and the PA side of the suburbs? There really is none besides what the census designates as "the city limits" and the "border of Bucks, Montco, etc."

See the difference?

You came off a little condescending, but yea I see where you are coming from in regards to the geographical context. I just thought it was interesting that, in an effort to make sure all the suburbs are included, the "Philly Jersey Delaware" phrase, from a purely govt/legal-name perspective, excludes the PA burbs. Of course, as I said in the original post, everyone knows the Philly term includes those burbs. Here's an interesting map showing what names people use to refer to their home. It's NYC-centered but suits our needs:


The European phenomenon you brought up is starting to be seen in American cities as well. In the DC region, for example, more and more poor DC residents are moving out into PG County as DC gentrifies and becomes too expensive to live in.

[RightonWalnut]

Originally Posted by soug

You came off a little condescending, but yea I see where you are coming from in regards to the geographical context. I just thought it was interesting that, in an effort to make sure all the suburbs are included, the "Philly Jersey Delaware" phrase, from a purely govt/legal-name perspective, excludes the PA burbs. Of course, as I said in the original post, everyone knows the Philly term includes those burbs. Here's an interesting map showing what names people use to refer to their home. It's NYC-centered but suits our needs:


The European phenomenon you brought up is starting to be seen in American cities as well. In the DC region, for example, more and more poor DC residents are moving out into PG County as DC gentrifies and becomes too expensive to live in.

I am very sorry, I did not mean to sound condescending at all. Yeah, I agree, I think it's generally assumed that the term "Philly" includes the PA suburbs which are usually seen as an extension and one with the city... rather than a separate entity and identity.

Really interesting map. It shows that the phenomenon in Philly is generally a national thing (or a Northeastern thing?)

Your last statement is so true... I don't think the "European" trend in American cities is limited to DC however. I think all cities are starting to see this phenomenon. Look at Philadelphia as well... Center City is becoming a wealthy area where the surrounding neighborhoods are being increasingly middle class then upper middle class, etc... pushing the "hispters" and working class further outward in the city and pushing the poor outward into areas that were originally and historically middle class or working class like the Northeast and the Southwest and the Olney area. I think this is a phenomenon happening in most cities except for the south and newer cities where they are less "centralized" and more sprawled with multiple businesses districts and highrise clusters, etc.

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by Summersm343

Your last statement is so true... I don't think the "European" trend in American cities is limited to DC however. I think all cities are starting to see this phenomenon. Look at Philadelphia as well... Center City is becoming a wealthy area where the surrounding neighborhoods are being increasingly middle class then upper middle class, etc... pushing the "hispters" and working class further outward in the city and pushing the poor outward into areas that were originally and historically middle class or working class like the Northeast and the Southwest and the Olney area. I think this is a phenomenon happening in most cities except for the south and newer cities where they are less "centralized" and more sprawled with multiple businesses districts and highrise clusters, etc.

It's a great phenomenon to see. My feeling is that the sprawling southern and newer cities completely lack the solid infrastructure to want to make anyone move into the center.

These Northeastern cities have gorgeous architecture, great public transportation, huge walkable areas, and going into the future, they are so unique in the U.S., people are finding the lifestyle to be much more interesting than sitting in a car all day going through drive-thru's and sitting on highways.

[RightonWalnut]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

It's a great phenomenon to see. My feeling is that the sprawling southern and newer cities completely lack the solid infrastructure to want to make anyone move into the center.

These Northeastern cities have gorgeous architecture, great public transportation, huge walkable areas, and going into the future, they are so unique in the U.S., people are finding the lifestyle to be much more interesting than sitting in a car all day going through drive-thru's and sitting on highways.

Agree completely. I feel that exact same way. I also feel like it is just an easier and more relaxed way of life (in the sense of not having to drive everywhere).

[gwillyfromphilly]

Originally Posted by frankgn87

True. Almost everyone I speak to around us all have roots in Philly and left sometime over the last 40 years..

Especially Hammonton, NJ. I live less than 5 miles from the Atlantic County border line in Franklin Township. There are so many residents in Hammonton who have roots in South Philly.

[john_starks]

Originally Posted by soug

One thing I've noticed is people from the PA burbs just say they are from Philly while people from the NJ burbs (most of the time) say South Jersey. I actually prefer the second, because it allows for a subidentity within the overall region.

this has been going on for a while. when you say that you're from NYC, you're from NYC. whenever, you say that you live in Philly, its never the actual city - bizarre. people are like , ok so ambler? conshahoken, landsldale, west chester, upper darby?

W...T...F, how about i live in Philly


nobody from greenwhich, CT, Kearny, NJ or massapequa, LI say they're from NYC

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by john_starks

nobody from greenwhich, CT, Kearny, NJ or massapequa, LI say they're from NYC

Those areas are also a lot more removed from NYC than the PA examples you mention. If I'm talking to someone who knows the area, I'll generally tell them the actual suburb I grew up in. But if they're unfamiliar with Philadelphia and surrounding, it's just easier to say Philly. My childhood home was just over 2 miles from the border anyway.

[john_starks]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

Those areas are also a lot more removed from NYC than the PA examples you mention. If I'm talking to someone who knows the area, I'll generally tell them the actual suburb I grew up in. But if they're unfamiliar with Philadelphia and surrounding, it's just easier to say Philly. My childhood home was just over 2 miles from the border anyway.

ok maybe, its weird for me b/c if i lived in kearny, newark, jersey city, yonkers or new rochelle - i wouldn't tell people that i'm from nyc - maybe its the island aspect. at least i wouldn't tell fellow northeasterners b/c
they'd call me out. maybe it's the $18 toll aspect


but if i visited texas or idaho - definitely