Opinions On Proposition 104 (Phoenix, Tempe: crime, school, bus)

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

In principle, I support light rail and other forms of public transit. I'm opposed to 104 mainly because we already are paying taxes for extending light rail, and that was the result of the Prop 400 approval by voters in 2004 to extend the half cent transportation tax ... a portion of that is supposed to be used for light rail. If Prop 104 passes, it will be the double taxation.

Another problem I have with this (as well as other transportation initiatives in the past) is the uncertainty of how much will actually get done with all this extra money. A good example of that was the 1985 half cent tax to build freeways. ADOT and MAG promised us 231 miles of new freeways by the early 21st Century, but we have only half of that completed. In 2004, voters approved the extension of that same tax for additional freeways, and light rail. How many new freeways have been built in the last 11 years from that tax extension??? Before anybody mentions the 303, that was already part of the 1985 plan. We constantly hear excuses that things can't be done as promised because of revenue shortfalls.

Here is your update on Prop 400.

https://www.azmag.gov/Documents/MAG_...sition-400.pdf

[swbrotha100]

Originally Posted by phx1205

Should we also put a toll booth on every single street, so only the people that drive on a particular street pay for the maintenance and up keep? You realize that is what you are saying, right?

They're experimenting with something like this in Oregon, where drivers will be charged a "mileage fee" or something like that.

[kell490]

Actually I really believe the future will be self driving electric cars which will be controlled by grid of computers. That will resolve many issues we have with driving. This is already being tested but it will happen cars will be able to go 100 mph with inches between bumpers without crashes. If you want to actually drive a car one will have to go to a closed track to do it.

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by upaul60

I'm a little skeptical that it will raise $31 billion but transit funding needs a boost. I really want to see the added light rail line from Downtown westward to the Capitol along Washington and Jefferson Street,it would benefit people like me and reduce reliance on my car. I work at the Capitol complex and am tired of the backed up drive both ways. That added line to the Capitol would make commuting easier for me and many other Government employees.

Well-written about the light rail expansion westward to the state capitol and beyond, it's already in the plans but it won't happen for many years.

In the meantime can't government employees get free bus passes so you won't have to drive so much?

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by kell490

Actually I really believe the future will be self driving electric cars which will be controlled by grid of computers. That will resolve many issues we have with driving. This is already being tested but it will happen cars will be able to go 100 mph with inches between bumpers without crashes. If you want to actually drive a car one will have to go to a closed track to do it.

Sounds good but it still doesn't address the issue of people who can't afford the expense of a car.

Besides, some people still don't wish to be commuting by car, so mass transit projects like busses and rail will still be needed to give people added options besides driving.

[JGMotorsport64]

This almost needs to pass. I agree that there are more efficient means of public transportation like Rapid Buses (which are a part of this) and a lot of this goes to street repair. But the light rail gives Phoenix a soul so to speak, a launching pad to centralize growth. The level of sprawl we have here is directly responsible for our air quality and urban heat island. Have most of you been here long? DT Phx is light years ahead of what it was 10 yrs ago, I drive by Tempe on the 202 daily and I'm always in awe of what is happening over there.
What about RoRo/Garfield in Phoenix? It seems like every other corner has a new construction project happening over there.

I wish I lived in Phx Proper, I'd vote for this and make everybody I know vote for this.

I just got out of a long stint in Tucson, is that what we want? Large sprawl, bad roads, no freeways and no way to build one at this point? They don't even have bus shoots which are a direct boon to central Tucson driving, you have 2 lanes to work with but really it's 1 as there are no separated turn lanes or bus shoots. A huge amount of accidents happen as a result of people jumping to the left when a bus stops. Don't let Phx NIMBYs take over like they have in Tucson. The point being that every traffic study, every transportation initiative is shot down down there and look what happened. They have a 4 mile track street car without a separated lane that travels at 20 mph because that's all that could be afforded and that would fit, they waited too long but It has single handedly turned DT Tucson from a scary homeless drug addicted waste land into a popping night scene with diversity, row houses etc. and even that thing barely passed with everybody kicking and screaming about how they don't want to " 'Phoenix' Tucson" People were wearing shirts that said "Keep Tucson S*****" .

[phxknight]

CodyW, you are showing your immaturity. Where you here for the completion of I10 thru downtown Phx ? Will I was am still am being here since '51. It took three years to get I 17 back to "normal" traffic with all the construction. And now Stanton wants to re-construct three bridges across I 17 ? One going to Metro center...which is a tomb, another to ASU West. Now in your very logical mind...who needs to go from main campus to ASU West and vice versa ? Drum roll...STUDENTS ! Now they take buses provided by ASU. Tell me how many students have complained about not having adequate transportation to main campus. I will tell you, 'cause I talked to them...ZERO. So that route is a boon doggle, as id the one to Metro Center. There is nothing there buy a big empty parking lot. This is an attempt by Progressive Democrat(he fraudulently calls himself an Independent) Greg Stanton to have a larger rail system so he can go to Mayoral conferences around the country and boast about the Phoenix light rail system(that is never ever close to 50% occupied) ! And Phoenix residents get to pay higher sales taxes for the next 35 years ? CodyW...go sit at 11 Ave and Camelback and watch as the 50 foot rail goes by and notice how full it is. Also note how the Phoenix buses are raising the rail down Camelback Road. And Stanton wants all of us to pay for it while 95% of Phoenix resident do not use it ? And another comment on whomever uses which Phoenix City streets. The City of Phoenix is responsible for maintain all icty streets. We do not have to all utilize them. That is not in the City Charter. And if you don't use the roads I drive on...maybe you should. You might get a more realistic on economic and taxes !

[FloppyRunner]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

They have a 4 mile track street car without a separated lane that travels at 20 mph because that's all that could be afforded and that would fit, they waited too long but It has single handedly turned DT Tucson from a scary homeless drug addicted waste land into a popping night scene with diversity, row houses etc. and even that thing barely passed with everybody kicking and screaming about how they don't want to " 'Phoenix' Tucson" People were wearing shirts that said "Keep Tucson S*****" .

Slightly off-topic, but once while visiting Tucson I mentioned to this hippy free-spirited type that I was down on a job interview and may be relocating. He said "oh nice, we gotta get you away from all of those roads" (meaning Phoenix). Roads? Yeah, I HATE those things!!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not for paving over all of nature, but you gotta have a decent way to get from A to B and it's not like Tucson has a world-class public transportation system either...

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by FloppyRunner

Slightly off-topic, but once while visiting Tucson I mentioned to this hippy free-spirited type that I was down on a job interview and may be relocating. He said "oh nice, we gotta get you away from all of those roads" (meaning Phoenix). Roads? Yeah, I HATE those things!!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not for paving over all of nature, but you gotta have a decent way to get from A to B and it's not like Tucson has a world-class public transportation system either...

As the saying goes:

Tucson hates Phoenix

Phoenix has never heard of Tucson

[Magnum Mike]

Originally Posted by locolife

You, and others who may never use the roads, also pay a sales tax increase under Prop 400 to fund the roads, because guess what? gas tax doesn't pay for nearly all of it. So under the rationale you're proposing for the treatment of light rail we would need to seriously increase gas tax or add tolls, so that only those using the roads pay for it. So are you opposed to all new taxes or no? This stuff doesn't fund itself...

I'm not opposed to tax increases, IF the revenue is used properly. Everyone would like to see improvements in mass transit, and roads/freeways, but with the way Prop 104 is written, which specifies a number of items that it will supposedly improve, that's one reason I'm going to vote no on it.

The expansion of the light rail should be one proposition by itself, not a bunch of them lumped into one. When they say they'll allocate certain percentages to specific purposes, I can't trust them.