What are some ways Phoenix could develop to stand out from the crowd? (Tucson: to live, move to)

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

Perhaps you've never driven in middle class to poor areas, if you think every grass lawn in Phoenix is green. Are you insulated from poor people? I know I'm not.

Yeah but everyone in Phoenix can afford 600k+ homes like in Encanto and FQ and North Central and Arcadia

Point is outward development should be as minimal as possible, of course you can only go so high before building out. But at our rate of density, we are doing a crap job at density and building up. When most grass lawns die out (may I suggest driving to anywhere in West Valley outside of Arrowhead Ranch?) and it loses it's benefit of providing cooling because it becomes a color that no longer provides a cooling effect (brown like our dirt) yet people will still attempt to water them and waste resources of course I'm going to be critical of it.

It's evident you've never been to Maryvale, or even central Glendale for that matter, if you think all grass lawns in Phoenix are lush. Those pockets in Arcadia and Encanto are minuscule in comparison to the wide swaths of land taken up by Maryvale, Peoria, etc.

But we can't look at Maryvale as the standard bearer for the City can we? And does anybody want to go to Central Glendale/Maryvale?

He's right. Large swaths of Tempe, Phoenix, Mesa, Gilbert, and Scottsdale are littered in middle class housing with green lawns. Simple as that. There are large swaths of pink gravel with misc. shrubs, but there are also large swaths of properties with grass and trees that are not upscale.

Even a cursory glance on Google Earth shows Phoenix to be quite striking in relation to what surrounds it.

This is not an endorsement of grass/trees, just pointing out that they exist in abundance.

[Hschlick84]

Are there any sources on whether white concrete actually reduces heat island effect compared to all the dark asphalt ADOT loves to use on their interstates and highways?

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by Hschlick84

compared to all the dark asphalt ADOT loves to use on their interstates and highways?

That wasn't always the case, I think the new South Mountain Freeway is going to be the first major project in the Valley where the road will be entirely asphalt (top and base) and no concrete base like they usually do. When they built the 101 and 202 it was all white concrete from top to bottom, then they decided to go back and add that thin layer of asphalt made from tires over the finished product to reduce the decibels, supposedly.

[DougStark]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

Wait, what?


You don't "waste" water, yet you have a lush lawn? You, sir, are responsible for tens of thousands of gallons of wasted water alone. Fill your house with roughly 60K gallons of milk, then sit back and look at it. Just imagine the spectacle of 60K gallons of milk.Marvel at all that waste.


That's what the average homeowner (with a grass lawn) wastes on water just to have unnatural grass growing. May I recommend some place like Honolulu or Seattle if you want a lush lawn?

I'll explain it ass simply as I can: smart water use isn't waste. Waste is over watering, not fixing leaks, having a winter lawn. Furthermore, watering my lawn not only irrigates the grass- it waters all of the trees and shrubs in my yard that have grown their roots under my lawn.

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

May I recommend somewhere like Russia, North Korea, or much of the Middle East if you like to meddle so much?
()

I'm not saying they cant grow grass. Show me where I said that. I pointed out how the poster says he doesn't "waste water", yet has a lush lawn. Its just an unnecessary thing to do in PHX, especially in the middle of an epic drought. I think if everyone saw how much water they wasted on their stupid lawns, they would reconsider. SRP makes a nice water usage pyramid using milk jugs at the zoo during the Zoo Lights festival. But they just show how much one person uses a day on showering, etc. That pales in comparison to how much water gets used on lawns and non-native flora. 5-7K gallons a month just to have grass in the Sonoran Desert??? Some people use a lot more. Ridiculous.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by Hschlick84

Are there any sources on whether white concrete actually reduces heat island effect compared to all the dark asphalt ADOT loves to use on their interstates and highways?

California has quite a library of resources regarding cool pavement.

https://www.epa.gov/heat-islands/usi...e-heat-islands

[locolife]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

I'm not saying they cant grow grass. Show me where I said that. I pointed out how the poster says he doesn't "waste water", yet has a lush lawn. Its just an unnecessary thing to do in PHX, especially in the middle of an epic drought. I think if everyone saw how much water they wasted on their stupid lawns, they would reconsider. SRP makes a nice water usage pyramid using milk jugs at the zoo during the Zoo Lights festival. But they just show how much one person uses a day on showering, etc. That pales in comparison to how much water gets used on lawns and non-native flora. 5-7K gallons a month just to have grass in the Sonoran Desert??? Some people use a lot more. Ridiculous.

I'm with you 100% on this, we have a small patch of grass in our backyard for the dog to use and I just barely keep it alive as I feel like a complete @ss wasting water on something so silly when were about to start cutting deliveries to agriculture users who grow the food we depend on to live.

The rest of our yard is all xeriscape. We've even been using an invisible pool cover that gets poured in weekly and is supposed to reduce evaporation by a big factor. I know AZ has made a lot of strides in saving water over the last 50-100 years but there's still an insane amount of waste that goes on here.

This is one reason why I can't help but laugh when people worry about the drought in the West, it'll be pretty easy to cutback on wasted water use when were finally forced to do so. To date I don't think Phoenix has ever seen a single forced restriction on water use, meanwhile places like Denver, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas and Los Angeles have had strict enforcement for years.

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by locolife

I'm with you 100% on this, we have a small patch of grass in our backyard for the dog to use and I just barely keep it alive as I feel like a complete @ss wasting water on something so silly when were about to start cutting deliveries to agriculture users who grow the food we depend on to live.

The rest of our yard is all xeriscape. We've even been using an invisible pool cover that gets poured in weekly and is supposed to reduce evaporation by a big factor. I know AZ has made a lot of strides in saving water over the last 50-100 years but there's still an insane amount of waste that goes on here.

This is one reason why I can't help but laugh when people worry about the drought in the West, it'll be pretty easy to cutback on wasted water use when were finally forced to do so. To date I don't think Phoenix has ever seen a single forced restriction on water use, meanwhile places like Denver, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas and Los Angeles have had strict enforcement for years.

Desert landscape can look nice if it's kept up but it's very unpleasant to be on, you can't walk barefoot, have a picnic, or play soccer, softball or croquet on gravel.

Shady grassy areas help make being outside in the summertime a little more pleasant along with misters and a pool.

I think there are good reasons why Phoenix doesn't have forced water restrictions, better management, conservation efforts, and multiple sources are three reasons.

Because there are no restrictions I don't see a reason to force everyone to get rid of grass just because you think it's wasteful.

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

Desert landscape can look nice if it's kept up but it's very unpleasant to be on, you can't walk barefoot, have a picnic, or play soccer, softball or croquet on gravel.

Shady grassy areas help make being outside in the summertime a little more pleasant along with misters and a pool.

I think there are good reasons why Phoenix doesn't have forced water restrictions, better management, conservation efforts, and multiple sources are three reasons.

Because there are no restrictions I don't see a reason to force everyone to get rid of grass just because you think it's wasteful.

If you moved here to the parched Sonoran Desert and feel the need to have a lush lawn just to play croquet or softball on, please slap yourself. Water is our most precious commodity in the desert, and to move here and suck down thousands upon thousands of gallons a month just so you can walk barefoot in the yard is ridiculous. I cant wait 'til water restrictions are FINALLY enforced here all these lush green lawns I see shrivel up and die. If you all want super green and lush lawns, move to where the water is plentiful, because you clearly picked the wrong place to live and waste water so extravagantly.


I think Phoenicians need to start water shaming each other like they do in California.

[ElleTea]

Originally Posted by locolife

I'm with you 100% on this, we have a small patch of grass in our backyard for the dog to use and I just barely keep it alive as I feel like a complete @ss wasting water on something so silly when were about to start cutting deliveries to agriculture users who grow the food we depend on to live.

The rest of our yard is all xeriscape. We've even been using an invisible pool cover that gets poured in weekly and is supposed to reduce evaporation by a big factor. I know AZ has made a lot of strides in saving water over the last 50-100 years but there's still an insane amount of waste that goes on here.

This is one reason why I can't help but laugh when people worry about the drought in the West, it'll be pretty easy to cutback on wasted water use when were finally forced to do so. To date I don't think Phoenix has ever seen a single forced restriction on water use, meanwhile places like Denver, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas and Los Angeles have had strict enforcement for years.

So funny, I have a big yard with grass (that I hate and just don't water) and my dogs prefer the areas that are gravel. One of them sunbathes on the concrete patio.