Phoenix Drivers (Tucson: transplants, apartment complex, most dangerous)

[Captain Bill]

Here's a link to the Arizona Drivers Manual Motor Vehicle Division

Tailgating is agressive driving and can get quite a few points on one's record. The distance rule behind a vehicle (in good weather driving conditions) is three (3) seconds.

If a car in the left lane is driving 3 seconds behind the car in front of them, then they are complying with the law and driving at the same speed as the car in front of them. They are not driving slower than the traffic ahead of them. (Assuming the driver in front is driving the speed limit or above.) The drivers who want everyone to move over for them tend to overlook this safe following distance rule.

What is happening on the freeways is the agressive driver doesn't want to see any space between the two cars immediately in front of him/her. If he sees space, then he thinks the driver in front of him is driving too slow and should move over.

I disagree with that because the car in front of him is driving as fast as he can. If he drives faster then he gets too close to the vehicle in front of him. Consequently, the driver who is maintaining 3 seconds behind the car in front of him is not driving slower than the traffic around him (in keeping with the letter of those rules.)

However, the manual advises to drive in the center lane of the 3 lane highway and allow the right lane to be used for freeway merging, and the left lane for passing. That could eliminate a lot of these aggressive actions.

That works well for me most of the time. I'm a very defensive driver and try to keep my vehicle in a position that will allow me to maneuver if needed to avoid a collision with another vehicle.

When I'm driving on a road like Val Vista which is a divided 6 lane road with 3 lanes in each direction, and a 45 mph speed limit, I stay in the center lane until I'm about a mile from where I'll be turning. That way I avoid the agressive tailgaters (for the most part), and avoid the slow down for the drivers turning right. I seem to move along a little faster and smoother this way. By giving myself a mile (if the traffic is heavy) to get over to my turning lane I don't have to rush and can move over when it's more convenient.

I'll drive from 45 mph up to around 50-52 if traffic is moving fast. So if I'm in that center lane and someone tailgates me, then I just hold my ground. I won't move over to the right lane for them, and I'm not going to speed for them. (I will keep closer than 3 seconds to the car in front of me, usually more like to 2 because I know that gives me reaction time in case the guy in front has an accident or slams on her brakes.) They need to pass me on the left, or the right if they choose. The only reason I will move is if the traffic situation tells me that it will be safer for me to use a different lane at the moment.

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

... the manual advises to drive in the center lane of the 3 lane highway and allow the right lane to be used for freeway merging, and the left lane for passing. That could eliminate a lot of these aggressive actions....

Unfortunately that becomes unworkable in heavy traffic, although it works great on an uncrowded interstate highway.

[KarmaPhx]

Originally Posted by Greatday

What our young friend failed to realize from my earlier post was, I said I was trying to pass (in the left lane) - but as sometimes happens, the driver in the right lane speeds up because they are playing a "game" - hence my comment that the law does not require me to speed merely to pass.

I agree about the left lane being a high speed lane - no question. But, there are times when drivers will use that lane as a "travel" lane - as an example, there is a stretch of I-8 where the right lane is rough as hell - hence drivers prefer the left.

Our young friend however appears to feel that riding the bumper of the car ahead of them is OK regardless of the situation - and what I was trying to point out was, it is not OK - REGARDLESS of how slow, or fast, the driver ahead is going.

Who exactly are you referring too?

You said you enjoy blocking the fast lane, not using it to pass.

I never said tailgating was alright, but if you are blocking the lane, you need to know that you need to move your ass out of the lane.

If you are one of the people who think its fine to only go 70 in the fast lane, slow people down to 30 who tailgate you, you are the ones causing road rage in other drivers and you are the one who needs to know that you are not king of the road, you do not make the rules, and you need to learn how to drive.

There would be no reason to tailgate if you didn't block the lane, how hard is this to comprehend really? No wonder phoenix has such horrible drivers, with retards like this flooding the streets.

[eskercurve]

Originally Posted by KarmaPhx

If you are one of the people who think its fine to only go 70 in the fast lane, slow people down to 30 who tailgate you, you are the ones causing road rage in other drivers and you are the one who needs to know that you are not king of the road, you do not make the rules, and you need to learn how to drive.

There would be no reason to tailgate if you didn't block the lane, how hard is this to comprehend really? No wonder phoenix has such horrible drivers, with retards like this flooding the streets.

It's called obeying the law. Read up on it, it will do you good.

[eskercurve]

Mod Cut: Responding to deleted post.

Speed limits are here for a reason. Even if they are prima facie, it is hard to defend it in court.

While I do not like people slowing down significantly to "deter" speeders, I also believe it is within a person's right to obey the law anywhere on the road they are in, since they pay taxes to maintain the road.

So, taking my own experience driving in AZ, where people tailgated me regularly, I think people in AZ need to learn common courtesy when driving and not be surprised that tailgating only incites road rage. Besides, it's not like going that extra 15 mph will get you there much faster.

[KarmaPhx]

Originally Posted by eskercurve

To prove a point. Speed limits are here for a reason. Even if they are prima facie, it is hard to defend it in court.

While I do not like people slowing down significantly to "deter" speeders, I also believe it is within a person's right to obey the law anywhere on the road they are in, since they pay taxes to maintain the road.

So, taking my own experience driving in AZ, where people tailgated me regularly, I think people in AZ need to learn common courtesy when driving and not be surprised that tailgating only incites road rage. Besides, it's not like going that extra 15 mph will get you there much faster.

If you are in the fast lane, it's just common courtesy to move if you're slowing down the flow of traffic. If you have more than 5 cars behind you, you're in violation of Arizona law for creating a hazzard.

I can get from Greenyway & 51 to the airport if I stay in the fast lane going ~70 in about 10 minutes, staying in ANY other lane would take 15-20 easily. Maybe 5-10 minutes isn't important to you, but it's important to me.

[eskercurve]

Originally Posted by KarmaPhx

If you are in the fast lane, it's just common courtesy to move if you're slowing down the flow of traffic. If you have more than 5 cars behind you, you're in violation of Arizona law for creating a hazzard.

I can get from Greenyway & 51 to the airport if I stay in the fast lane going ~70 in about 10 minutes, staying in ANY other lane would take 15-20 easily. Maybe 5-10 minutes isn't important to you, but it's important to me.

Oh, I totally agree it is common courtesy to move out of the lane if you're holding up traffic, there's no denying that. And to be honest, I'm one of those that speeds regularly, too. But, there are times when it is simply unsafe ...

For example, I was going the speed limit on some road (I forget which, it was near Glendale, near the 101 N) and minding my own business, on a six lane road, when someone clown in a jacked up truck decided to tailgait me about 1 inch off my bumper. And there was no other traffic around. So I slowed down to the speed limit (not terribly much slower than I was driving, around 45), but he still didn't pass. I can't figure out what's wrong, and I'm honestly scared since I'm in a little sports car, and if he rear ends me in that thing, I'm dead. So I simply don't go at a red light when it goes green and he finally storms off.

Why do that sh*t, really? Honestly. I met more ignoramuses in Phoenix than every other city I've ever driven in COMBINED. Learn some manners, people.

As for highway driving, I can understand 85, but not 100 on the 101. I was almost rear ended more than once when I was legitimately passing slower drivers when suddenly out of nowhere someone is going that fast on the highway. I've never in my life been so afraid to go on highways than in Phoenix. So, in those cases, I continue going my 80 passing people, and those clowns can wait until I do pass.

So anyone saying that tailgating is in any way justified can put a sock in it. My safety - and those around us - trumps your impatience.

[jimj]

I've gotta say being relatively new to Phoenix metro I've never lived in a place where ALL the speed limits seem to be mere suggestions and not actualy enforced.
We've yet to drive the speed limit on almost all streets/hwys because if we do we almost get run down or pushed out of the way.
Now I will say some of the speed limits are not reasonable, 45 mph seems to be AZ's favorite number no matter if it's a 6 lane expressway or 2 lane street. One example is Ellsworth Rd from 60 to Queen Creek. Once you're away from 60 about 1-2 miles I don't see any reason it couldn't/shouldn't be bumped to 55.
On the other hand on almost every other street or road that's marked 45 people seem to be going at LEAST 55.

[AZDesertBrat]

Has anyone ever considered that the vast majority of AZ residents are from someplace else? They bring their bad driving habits with them. So, if AZ has 'bad drivers', who's fault is it??

[jgunn72]

Originally Posted by KarmaPhx

If you are in the fast lane, it's just common courtesy to move if you're slowing down the flow of traffic. If you have more than 5 cars behind you, you're in violation of Arizona law for creating a hazzard.

I can get from Greenyway & 51 to the airport if I stay in the fast lane going ~70 in about 10 minutes, staying in ANY other lane would take 15-20 easily. Maybe 5-10 minutes isn't important to you, but it's important to me.

It's not even being courteous, it is the law in AZ to do so. The same people who complain about those going fast have no issues with camping out in the left lane and blocking traffic. Must be nice to break those laws that police don't bother enforcing because they are not profitable.

28-721 - Driving on right side of roadway; exceptions

B. On all roadways, a person driving a vehicle proceeding at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall drive the vehicle in the right-hand lane then available for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.