Civic Arena, Round 20--the lawsuit

[BrianTH]

Oh, and I think the Arena does have historic significance. It was one of the first buildings of its kind, and it was a large part of a redevelopment movement that dramatically reshaped Pittsburgh. Now, a lot of that history is BAD history, in the sense that redevelopment movement was mostly disasterous and counter-productive, and in part motivated by racism. But history isn't about just good things.

So I think its historic significance should be fairly considered. And if it wasn't so large and unwieldy, and in such a key location, it might well be worth preserving. But it is in fact way too big, and blocking way too much high-value land, and that outweighs its historic significance.

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

So I think its historic significance should be fairly considered. And if it wasn't so large and unwieldy, and in such a key location, it might well be worth preserving. But it is in fact way too big, and blocking way too much high-value land, and that outweighs its historic significance.

The land is an island and a stand alone area. Not all that valuable now, but it can become valuable. If they do a really good job developing the land and I hope they do a nice job because it is quite visible and the city needs a nice buffer from the Hill. Guess we will find out pretty soon. Might as well be excited about it at this point. I never had hopes that the Arena would be saved. Like I have said, I know that business too well and knew better to think it would stay.

I am surprised the plans for the land aren't release yet in formal way. Probably will be controversial, but who knows? I have a feeling they will try and go higher end. Not sure though.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

IThere would be no way to bring the building up to current standards without seriously reducing the capacity.

It doesn't have to be huge. Look how many concerts are at Station Square in that parking lot. There is always a way to make things better. Don't believe all the crap the developers tell you. They are about money and present everything for themselves.

I remember when I was in my 20's and the church I was a member of wanted to merge with another church. We would have to move to their building. I remember the people pushing for this were telling everyone the slate roof would need replaced and a host of other things. This was 35 years ago. Guess what roof is still there? Yep, that slate roof. That was my introduction to the CEO types that have reasons to push things through on a fear card. Then I sold real estate for years and owned commercial buildings and more and more. It is easy to get people all thinking the places are no good and have to go. I don't buy it, 90% of the time.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

I am surprised the plans for the land aren't release yet in formal way.

The Penguins' preliminary plans have long been available, and in fact I have linked to them here before. Here it is again:

http://www.pgh-sea.com/images/LHR_Me...on20100317.pdf

A few key images:







Of course this is just a preliminary plan, and I would personally hope for some changes before it is finalized, most notably extending Webster through the development site as well (as in fact is suggested in some parts of the Penguins' presentation).

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The Penguins' preliminary plans have long been available, and in fact I have linked to them here before. Here it is again:

Thanks Brian. To be quite candid, I didn't read the early stages much because it was like salt in the wounds. I am still a little bitter, but it was worse when they built the console. That is when I knew it was coming. I didn't address it that much back then because I was still dreaming of a hockey game outdoors weather permitting several times a year.

I like the plans that I am seeing there. If it looks like that it will be very nice and I could see it as being a destination, sort of. My biggest concern is Washington Place and the fact the whole thing is on a hill. Washington Place is a very busy street and quite wide. Not a normal city street to cross and people driving on it are getting geared up to hit the Veteran's Bridge or Bigelow, so they are starting to move faster and faster. That area is not very pedestrian friendly. The hill is always an interesting study. It is surprising how big of a deal a hill is to so many people. Will people walk to work from there? I know I would if I was working downtown, but I have to wonder. I also like all that green space. That could be a huge benefit and very much needed.

My apologies for being a bit bitter. I will try and focus on what the use is going to be. I have vented enough. I will miss the arena and wish I could have had one more concert with that view and under the stars. It was something I will never forget and wish most of you could have experienced it. The people playing on stage sure liked it and of course the people in the seats were in awe.

[gg]

I hope they make it very pedestrian friendly and cycle friendly. Not sure about Washington Place and how to address that street. Guess a crosswalk is all that can be done. Huge road and travelled a lot by people trying to get to the North Hills and East End as fast as they can.