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I went to a high school where 30% of the students were gay/bi or trans, and 50% of the faculty were gay/bi or trans. We had a Gay Pride Week, Transgender Day of Remembrance, and our entire English curriculum was devoted to studying Civil Rights in America. Our school happily gave up teaching the classics for teaching African American Lit. Apart from 4 books by Shakespeare, every other book I read in high school was by or about being African-American, gay, or Jewish. We called our teachers by their first names, had an open-campus policy, and some of our teachers would even hold classes outside or at Starbucks. My HS would probably be selling the F*ck Hate shirts in the student lounge if school were in session.
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OK. I'm curious. Do you mind giving us an idea of where you went to High School???
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What American values do you speak ?
It is okay to kill off almost an entire indigenous population after invading their land?
It is okay for one human to own another, and use them as work animals?
Females are second class citizens?
It is okay to keep separate the races by force?
Only white, male, property owners can vote?
I think a lot of the Bible thumpers would be surprised at some things the Bible says is bad or is okay. But they like to pick and choose to support their bigotry.
Why don't you study history? It was "bible thumpers" (abolitionists) that got behind abolishing slavery. Actually, it was religious people who got behind most social evils and helped change them for the better.
Now because religious people do not support gay marriage all the good they have done through the centuries is dismissed. Does that make sense? Does that make those who support gay marriage seem like good people? Makes one wonder.
and in this post (http://www.city-data.com/forum/20127453-post272.html) talking about legally married gay couples you say: "They still aren't 'married' in my eyes, and no law can make them so. Call it what you wish; it's lost on me"
So in review, you believe sex is sinful if outside of marriage (meaning all sex outside of marriage is immoral). You also believe gay people cannot marry - "period." Therefore, aren't you saying that gay people (minus gay virgins) are immoral?
I was rather hoping this post would be deleted as I reported, since the one I posted mentioning how my words were taken out of context WAS deleted.
Ah well.
Anyway, the point being, it is obvious for anyone who actually reads my ENTIRE post linked first above, that my words were certainly taken out of context.
As for the rest, again there is nothing about anyone being "immoral."
But of one thing I am sure: People see what they wish to see, and nothing more.
I understand that this may appear a little self serving ... but the reality is that I'm actually a political atheist, so I'm really not bound by this one party system claiming to be two parties. And when speaking of Liberal-Conservative debate, I really should preface that by labeling the conservatives as false-conservatives, because we have no conservative representation in Washington DC. What we have are left wing fascists and left wing communists, if truth be told ... which one is worse? Well, flip a coin. Who was worse between Hitler and Stalin? At the end of the day, you have the same results .. totalitarianism with two different masks.
I'm confused. What does being liberal have to do with fascism or communism? None of my left-wing friends are fans of either system, and I can definitely say I am not either.
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With that said ... almost every legislative agenda and action is left wing. Think Bush was a true conservative? He presided over the largest expansion of the federal government in the history of the Nation, and outspent every US president in history doing it. Obama? He's just picked up where Bush left off, and accelerated the spending. Before Bush ... Clinton. So that makes 18 1/2 years of leftist agenda pushing. And you thought Obama was "change" to the left? The only change we're seeing is the change left in our pockets that isn't worth it's zinc content.
I have to admit, this is the first time I've heard someone call Bush a leftist. That is totally news to me.
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I think that's an outstanding idea .. trouble is, you just can't have it both ways. You can't push for big government and eliminate it's interference at the same time. I agree that government should stay out of our private lives ... but then you can't go running to government begging it to fix society's ills the way you like it, and demand programs to address every problem, real or perceived.
The choice is, feed from the government teat, or stand on your own two feet ... it's an either or thing. Leftist=Teat Right=Feet.
Or better yet ... just apply the logic in your own analogy, and a whole lot of rationalization isn't necessary. "Shall not be infringed" shouldn't require decades of debate for English speaking folks.
I don't think it's either-or. I think there are degrees of interference and support.
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Ah ha! This is where that left wing extremist upbringing has clouded your thinking. So to avoid any further confusion, may I bluntly say that 6 year old children have no business learning, thinking, discussing or contemplating sex ... not heterosexual sex, not homosexual sex, not Billy has two mommies, or Sally has two daddies ... nothing sexual. If they are inquisitive ... it's easy ... you tell them that's an adult topic, and they've got plenty of time later to learn all of those things.
Is mentioning Johnny has a mommy and a daddy talking about sex? Where is there sex in that? All that is is mentioning Johnny's parents. Mentioning Mary has two mommies or two daddies isn't talking about sex. Where is the topic of sex in that statement? No one is bringing up what they do in bed or in private to little children. You can talk about people loving each other or being married or together without talking about sex. I don't understand why so many people think that even mentioning that gay people have partners just like straight people is talking about sex. Straight people refer to their husbands, wives, boyfriends, girlfriends, etc. in the flow of conversation, but when a gay person does it, all the sudden it's "talking about sex." But what is sexual about saying "I spent the weekend visiting my boyfriend's family"? What difference does it make if the speaker of that phrase is male or female? That doesn't make the same statement any more or less sexual in nature. I am not saying that it's okay to talk to very young children about sexual acts, but to mention that someone has two male or two female parents is hardly talking about sex.
As for the video visuals, I was just curious if it was a cheek-kiss or a french kiss or what have you. That does make a difference. I could tell just by listening to it that it had a lot of profanity, and the sound effects, to be honest, were quite annoying IMO. You're right, it was well-done in terms of they achieved their goal and a lot of editing must have gone into making that video, but the goal they had in mind was in poor taste. I just don't know why the message has to be said with so many F bombs. They offend no one by not swearing and yet they offend so many people by swearing. I have no idea why the maker of the video decided to use the F word so much. Complete lack of judgment if you ask me.
My bet is Berkeley, California .... politically connected parents .... an open campus High School .... lots of other places are possibilities ... but Berkeley is my pick ... I'd hedge the bet with Gary, Indiana ... perhaps Oakland. I wanted to say Detroit ... OK ... either Berkeley or Detroit.
The only place you will find absolute nonsense like your claim is from anti-gay propaganda websites - usually religiously-based ones. You can bluster as much as you want, but the facts don't support your claim.
Oh, is that right? Only your sources and your information are legitimate, aye? Only the data that you agree with? How convenient for you. Well, put your seat belt on, things are about to get inconvenient!
Let me ask you this ... when I post, as I intend to do ... direct quotes from prominent homosexuals espousing the legitimacy of sex with children .. in fact, glorifying it ... are you going to also claim they are lying? Spreading propaganda and disinformation to make themselves look bad? I can't wait!
But, before we get to that, lets examine YOUR "legitimate sources and information" for a bit first. I'm not going to just ignore it. Right off the bat, I see links to mainstream medical and psych journals, and though that might impress some of the drooling masses ... these same "peer reviewed" journals have been publishing propaganda for decades ...in fact, that's all they publish. They are without question, unmitigated frauds ... like publishing tripe about the safety of vaccines and how mercury, a known neurotoxin might actually benefit brain function ... and other such nonsensical claims. But that's subject for another thread.
I'm not going to dissect every one of these links ... just too much to do in a single response, but lets look at a couple of them just at face value:
The first thing we notice is that of - A. Nicholas Groth, who seems to be the author or co-author of most of this ... so lots of talk from a single source is still a single source. And since I'm familiar with the "statistical gymnastics" guys like this engage in, it's easy for me to spot the dancing, because I lived with a PhD for a couple of years who could utilize the methods of formal statistical analysis to literally prove to you that the sun only had a 73% chance of rising tomorrow ... with a couple of tweaks, 50-50. You gonna believe that too?
Anyway, he makes claims ... deceptively claiming that heterosexuals constitute a "greater" risk than homosexuals ... and you could make that claim based on shear volume since 2/3 of the child molestations are done by "self identified" heterosexual males .... but that means that the other 1/3 are committed by homosexual males .. and since they make up only 3% of the male population, that means mathematically, homosexuals are 10 times more dangerous, individually. Mr. Groth conveniently leave out that analysis.
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“The adult heterosexual male constitutes a greater risk to the underage child than does the adult homosexual male†National Institutes of Health – PubMed (Groth and Birnbaum, “Adult Sexual Orientation and Attraction to Underage Persons.â€)
Next, Here he claims how obvious it is that there is a difference between homosexuality and homosexual pedophilia, and how they are mutually exclusive .... but just a few sentences later, he suggests there is no such thing as homosexual pedophilia since it's all done by heterosexuals. Amazing ... so this CLOWN claims that homosexuals simply don't molest little boys at all ... all of these crimes are done by heterosexuals. Not one? Not a single instance at all? Mr. Groth is a freaking liar, and not a very good one ... if I were going to lie, I'd at least try to make it believable, and say ahhh there was a couple homos in there, but mostly heteros.
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"Homosexuality and homosexual pedophilia are not synonymous. In fact, it may be that these two orientations are mutually exclusive, the reason being that the homosexual male is sexually attracted to masculine qualities whereas the heterosexual male is sexually attracted to feminine characteristics, and the sexually immature child’s qualities are more feminine than masculine. . . . The child offender who is attracted to and engaged in adult sexual relationships is heterosexual. It appears, therefore, that the adult heterosexual male constitutes a greater sexual risk to underage children than does the adult homosexual male." A. Nicholas Groth, William F. Hobson, and Thomas S. Gary, “The Child Molester: Clinical Observations,†in Social Work and Child Sexual Abuse,
Of course that's true Mr. Groth .... apparently NO homosexuals are attracted to children, since you claimed ALL of the molesters were heteros (above).
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“The belief that homosexuals are particularly attracted to children is completely unsupported by our data.†National Institutes of Health – PubMed (Groth and Birnbaum, “Adult Sexual Orientation and Attraction to Underage Persons.â€)
Ah ... Dr. Groth again .. where have I heard that name? Oh yes, all the other reports ... but this next one is my personal favorite.
Here he claims that no lesbians molested any girls ... and the Male adults who molested little boys (again) are not likely to be a homosexual. Not likely? What the F does that mean? Not likely? Did he not ask? Did the data he used not stipulate this fact? Is this just a guess? Or is it just a continuation of the same lies he keep repeating? I think that's it! Dr. Groth is a bald-faced liar, and when he's not lying ... he's being sneaky and deceptive .. as I've highlighted in his word play.
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“The research to date all points to there being no significant relationship between a homosexual lifestyle and child molestation. There appears to be practically no reportage of sexual molestation of girls by lesbian adults, and the adult male who sexually molests young boys is not likely to be homosexual." Groth, A. N., & Gary, T. S. (1982). Heterosexuality, homosexuality, and pedophilia: Sexual offenses against children and adult sexual orientation.
And finally, we have this gem ... "one study noted"? What study was that? Isn't that kinda like what FOX news is famous for ... "some people say"? So the claim is that 98% of the molesters self-identify as heterosexual? And so there you have it, folks! Right from the horse's mouth? Yes, I believe everything child molesters say ... and so do the kids apparently when they say come with me little boy, I've got candy in my pocket!!!
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"One study noted that 98% of these male perpetrators self-identified as heterosexual."
This is a great intro to my evidence ... with the first source being the CDC ... that's the Center for Disease Control ... not the Christian Dogma Commission, OK:
Here, the CDC reports that 57% of males who have had sex with other males claimed to not be either homosexual or bisexual. Imagine that!
Really ...you know what I think? I think men who have sex with other men are extremely confused about homosexuality, and have a very difficult time telling the truth. There's a pattern here ... but based on my non-clinical opinion ... if a man has sex with other men ... he's a homosexual ... now if he molests a little boy and then claims he's a heterosexual .. surprise freaking surprise !!! But in spite of this ridiculous claim ... a claim the "experts" seem willing to take at face value, the end result is a homosexual molesting a little boy who is reported in the statistics as a heterosexual because they said so. Now I won't even offer speculation as to why these creeps will confess to molesting boys .. and even admit to having sex with other men .. but still insist they are heterosexual. Beats the crap out of me. Apparently, to these creeps it's preferable to be a pedophile than a homosexual.
But moving on ... contrary to the claims from the homosexual community that the national criminal data statistics don't link homosexuals to pedophilia, it's a bald faced lie, according to the FBI.
Now let's look at a few quotes, shall we?
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Larry Kramer, the founder of ACT-UP, "Report from the Holocaust: The Making of an AIDS Activist": "In those instances where children do have sex with their homosexual elders, be they teachers or anyone else, I submit that often, very often, the child desires the activity, and perhaps even solicits it."
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In 1995 the homosexual magazine "Guide" said, "We can be proud that the gay movement has been home to the few voices who have had the courage to say out loud that children are naturally sexual" and "deserve the right to sexual expression with whoever they choose. " The article went on to say: "Instead of fearing being labeled pedophiles, we must proudly proclaim that sex is good, including children's sexuality we must do it for the children's sake."
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In the "Journal of Homosexuality" titled "Male Intergenerational Intimacy," said: "parents should look upon the pedophile who loves their son "not as a rival or competitor, not as a theft of their property, but as a partner in the boy's upbringing, someone to be welcomed into their home."
I'm going to stop here because this document is beginning to wigg out and act strangely .... there are plenty more quotes ... and we have NAMBLA ... and all of the connections and support they have received from the mainstream homosexual organizations.
The evidence of this real predisposition of homosexuals targeting young boys is OVERWHELMING .... and dozens of direct confessions to support that fact in the same theme as is posted above.
It's undeniable ... and those that do go to such lengths to deny and fabricate bogus data and claims, are liars and defenders of child molesters, which makes them complicit in the attack on these children.
Bingo! That's why my location says "Deaf Mecca," because Washington DC is home to the first and only university designed for the deaf and hard of hearing. As a result, there's a huge community of Deaf people in DC.
I'll admit I haven't read all 449 posts, and I don't know how we got onto deaf people in DC from a video of people mocking homophobes. I will say this though - I love the fact that this video was posted, because it has people's attention. The gay communiy has gotten nowhere being nice. I like the fact that the phrase "F**k hate" is so catchy. I was a little weirded out by the prepubescent boys kissing, though. That would be the only thing I would change, though it does emphasize that people are in fact born gay. Some know their sexuality long before others. As for the Christians being slammed, YES! We know all Christians aren't anti-gay, and their are some that actually try to live by teachings of Christ. These are the people that need to be more vocal. The video's intent is to mock those that think hating gays will make you more like Jesus Christ. Point made.
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