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I called her out for pushing false qualifiers in the quoted post. She went bat-**** crazy after that because I called her bluff. Every since then she's not put forth a reasoned post in the least.
You see it as clearly as I did.
Again w/ the hyperbole. I went "bat sh*t crazy"? Really. Again, you're funny, especially since you still haven't said anything of value in your own thread other then point out that people are irresponsible and you want to cut WIC.
Also note that I said "some conservatives".
Oh, the hyperbole. You excel at it sir . It amuses me.
What if you are a Catholic that believes birth control is a sin and it's therefore against your religious beliefs to prevent pregnancy and you suddenly find yourself needing services such as WIC? What you consider to be irresponsiblity when it comes to family planning, might be a faith based requirement.
Just tossing it out there......
Premarital sex is considered a sin so the point is that people shouldn't be having sex outside of wedlock in the first place hence no need for contraception. The funny thing is that every catholic person I know has had or is having sex out of wedlock and they go to church a few days per week.
How do YOU know I have never said "enough is enough"? How do YOU know that I don't think some people on these programs are being irresponsible and something should be done about them? Again with the assumptions...
I have my issues with these programs, the people who abuse them, and the people who seem okay w/ "generational welfare". Such programs are excellent safety nets when times get tough, but no one should be on them for decades or raising multiple generations using them (I read stories in the news when Cabrini Green was torn down of people who were seemingly raising their children in the same Sec. 8 apartments their mother got decades ago and was disgusted).
Pity you couldn't suggest some ideas of your own since you brought up the topic, but my suggestions are as follow:
-life time cap on ALL so-called "welfare" programs-WIC, SNAP, Section 8, TANF, etc. Perhaps a 5 year cap would do. Some of these, specifically TANF, may already have a cap on them. Exceptions on a case-by-case basis (e.g., disability, long term recession/depression that make finding a job harder, etc)
-no additional increases if you have two children while on these programs. Small increase if you have one additional kid while on them (accidents do happen), but you must enroll in an all encompassing sex education class and shoe proof that you are working on getting off the program (e.g, enrolling in a voc-tech or college program, interning somewhere to gain job skills, etc). Honestly, I think that, after the second or third year, you should have to do this anyways.
-regular check ups to make sure people who claim a certain income aren't being subsidized by a live-in lover or relative.
-hold deadbeat dads more accountable for their children. Garnish wages, tax refunds, and hold any employer who pays them under the table responsible. It does take two to make a baby after all.
-more emphasis on school lunch programs and decreasing the amount of WIC/SNAP a family receives if the child is a part of a school lunch program. If your child is getting breakfast and lunch at school, then you don't need as much money to prepare food at home. Obviously, the amount would change over the summer or times when the child is out of school.
-more community based programs to help feed low income programs. For example, turning vacant lots into community gardens, after school and summer programs that feed kids that rely on school lunch programs, etc.
-Once again, an all encompassing sex education is important. Teaching kids about birth control, natural family planning, and abstinence (basically, covering all the bases) is key in making sure they know ways to prevent an unwanted pregnancy.
-Better access to birth control, especially for lower income women.
-Changes to the program so illegal immigrants can't benefit. I honestly don't know yet how to do so w/o affecting the legal children of illegals, but a way should be found. Other programs (like school lunch programs), churches, and charities should pick up the slack for illegal children or it could vary by state.
These are some ideas that I have off the top of my head. They may not be 100% feasible as stated, but it's a start. The biggest issue is, of course, making sure the children don't suffer for the irresponsible adults mistakes, but, again, I don't think most people on these programs are irresponsible. Some made mistakes, some may be ignorant to their options. Education is key and would help decrease the number of people on such programs (as would more jobs, but that's a bigger, different issue).
Yes, I realize that I may be talking to a rather dense wall, but at the same time, somewhere very, very deep within the original post, I think an interesting point/issue can be found and should be addressed. Sad that Aeroguy couldn't have done more to do so since, like I said before, it would be an interesting debate and he may find that many people, including myself, DO have issues w/ these programs being abused and people irresponsibly having children that can't care for.
All very valid options.
Why did you wait until after you've made 30 posts to address your ideas? I started the thread to get the discussion going....that doesn't mean I have to have all of the answers. You would have done this thread a huge service by posting your thoughts before getting into ill-conceived arguments of nothingness. Nevertheless, thanks for the post and ideas.
What if you are a Catholic that believes birth control is a sin and it's therefore against your religious beliefs to prevent pregnancy and you suddenly find yourself needing services such as WIC? What you consider to be irresponsiblity when it comes to family planning, might be a faith based requirement.
Just tossing it out there......
It is also against that religion to screw around before you get married but that doesn't seem to stop them.
I posted a link, either in this thread or on another one yesterday, that said the average welfare family is three people, usually a mom and two kids. Do a search.
That is believable. At one point in our lives we were such a family and qualified for all the programs being discussed here. And we never used any of them. The government thought I was poor or maybe wanted me to think so, but I never felt like I was. We were just fine, had plenty to eat and no one starved. What qualifies as poor in this country really isn't poor. That is also part of the problem.
Why did you wait until after you've made 30 posts to address your ideas? I started the thread to get the discussion going....that doesn't mean I have to have all of the answers. You would have done this thread a huge service by posting your thoughts before getting into ill-conceived arguments of nothingness. Nevertheless, thanks for the post and ideas.
Because, despite the many, many, many times where I've stated "I'll tell you my position on welfare programs if you ask me", you never did until that post.
Instead you choose to assume my positions at every turn, hyperbolize my posts, and basically sum up my position as someone who doesn't believe in personal responsibility and believe that people should keep on having children they can't afford. In nearly all of your responses to me, you painted me as the typical "liberal bleeding heart socialist" (not your words, just summing it up)-oh, and called me "bat sh*t crazy- and assumed that I, and many others who have posted, want to somehow reward irresponsible people who pop out children they can't afford. In fact, many people have said the opposite but were resigned to the fact that you can't "punish" the parents without hurting the child nor can you teach responsibility; the only thing you can do is find ways to not reward the actions of the irresponsible party w/o hurting the children, something that is very hard to do with WIC. You allowed your own thread to continue down the path of "ill conceived arguments of nothingness" through your own use of assumptions, hyperbole, and by basically not listening to my, or anyone else's arguments and not putting forth any reasonable options on your own.
Maybe this is why many don't take you seriously and have left this thread long ago. Sad it took you this long to ask, but at least I stayed on here long enough to correct the gross mistakes in your assumptions. Now I really have to stop going on w/ this thread and move on.
I wonder if some posters actually realize they are arguing from the point of "perfect world" and not "real world"? It makes a difference. The whole idea of just don't have sex isn't workable. Ever. EVER....NEXT
I wonder if some posters actually realize they are arguing from the point of "perfect world" and not "real world"? It makes a difference. The whole idea of just don't have sex isn't workable. Ever. EVER....NEXT
I've been trying to point that out, but Aero seems to want to stay living in this world filled with unicorns and butterflies.
Because, despite the many, many, many times where I've stated "I'll tell you my position on welfare programs if you ask me", you never did until that post.
Instead you choose to assume my positions at every turn, hyperbolize my posts, and basically sum up my position as someone who doesn't believe in personal responsibility and believe that people should keep on having children they can't afford. In nearly all of your responses to me, you painted me as the typical "liberal bleeding heart socialist" (not your words, just summing it up)-oh, and called me "bat sh*t crazy- and assumed that I, and many others who have posted, want to somehow reward irresponsible people who pop out children they can't afford. In fact, many people have said the opposite but were resigned to the fact that you can't "punish" the parents without hurting the child nor can you teach responsibility; the only thing you can do is find ways to not reward the actions of the irresponsible party w/o hurting the children, something that is very hard to do with WIC. You allowed your own thread to continue down the path of "ill conceived arguments of nothingness" through your own use of assumptions, hyperbole, and by basically not listening to my, or anyone else's arguments and not putting forth any reasonable options on your own.
Maybe this is why many don't take you seriously and have left this thread long ago. Sad it took you this long to ask, but at least I stayed on here long enough to correct the gross mistakes in your assumptions. Now I really have to stop going on w/ this thread and move on.
Just because you don't think i'm taken seriously, doesn't mean i'm not taken seriously. I get far too many reactions from "the other side" to not be taken seriously. If I were irrelevant, they wouldn't debate me. Just like I don't debate those that I deem irrelevant. Contrary to your perception, they do indeed debate me. You've not been around this forum long enough to know that, so you shouldn't pretend to.
And in case you haven't noticed, all the "major players".....which doesn't include you by the way....have participated on this thread. So you can stop with the "your thread sucks" meme and stick with the subject.
Last edited by AeroGuyDC; 02-27-2012 at 02:44 PM..
I wonder if some posters actually realize they are arguing from the point of "perfect world" and not "real world"? It makes a difference. The whole idea of just don't have sex isn't workable. Ever. EVER....NEXT
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighttrain55
I've been trying to point that out, but Aero seems to want to stay living in this world filled with unicorns and butterflies.
Everytime this is trotted out, it shows the obtusity of those who spew it.
Once again: Where have I stated or even asserted that people should not have sex?
I haven't. Both of you know this, but yet you keep up with this bull****. It's tiring, and quite frankly ignorant on your part to keep spewing it.
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