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Old 05-31-2012, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,849,652 times
Reputation: 12341

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Again - you are cherry-picking OT verses and ignoring the NT.
How exactly does one cherry pick by quoting from the Bible. Unless... the Bible is dramatically inconsistent?
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:13 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,400,837 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
That's right...but knowing fully well that they will sin again, just like the rest of us. Nobody can overcome a single, solitary sinful behavior on their own strength. If they could, all they'd have to do is try harder and they wouldn't need a Savior at all. They could "save" themselves.

It's funny how many believers (and I am one) accept that Christ forgives their on-going sins after Salvation if they admit their guilt and ask forgiveness (which God has promised to His people), but expect homosexuals to suddenly stop sinning altogether before they can be accepted into the Kingdom of God. Nobody else has to meet that requirement, so why them?

I think it's because we find that particular sin repulsive and are therefore loathe to believe God can, and will, forgive it in the name of Christ. He will. The truth is that God finds our sins as repulsive as we find theirs, yet He's willing to forgive us for Christ's sake. By what right do we try to impose a higher standard on our homosexual brothers and sisters? If they confess Christ and believe in their heart that God has raised him from the dead, if they admit their sinful state and vow to turn from it (repentance in the Greek means a change of mind, not necessarily a change in behavior), they are as Christian as I am EVEN IF THEY FAIL TO STOP.

God searches the heart. He's more concerned with your motivation than your behavior. None of us can know what's in the heart of a professing Christian who continues to sin, even homosexuals, so where do we get off requiring things of them which we do not require of ourselves or which God does not require of anyone?
What is 'sinful' about a person being in a loving committed relationship with another person?
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Somewhere Out West
2,287 posts, read 2,591,008 times
Reputation: 1956
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
There's a difference between ignoring a prohibition, although orthodox Jews still follow this edict, and elevating a sin to equal status of marriage, a sacred sacrament in the Catholic and Christian tradition.
It may be a sacrament in the Roman Church, but it is not a sacrament in many others. They view it as a rite. Please don't mislead people and say it is a sacrament in the Christian tradition.

Given the U.S. is not a theocracy nor are the views of the Roman Church what should be used to determine laws, saying how people should be treated and welcomed into the church.
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,849,652 times
Reputation: 12341
Stance on "Christianity" cost Jesus His life. It is how people drowning in religiosity work as a collective.
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:38 AM
 
25,857 posts, read 16,560,676 times
Reputation: 16036
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
Good when preachers deviate from scriptures in such a fundamental way it's clear you are not following the precepts of your faith.

Stance On Gay Marriage May Cost Rev. His Church « CBS Minnesota
This guy is doing everything that MLK JR would have been proud of. He is sticking his neck out for people who are persecuted and discriminated against. He is losing everything he has worked for to stand up for them.

This pastor is a shining example of what Christianity is supposed to be.
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
25,826 posts, read 20,731,619 times
Reputation: 14818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sco View Post
This proves that Christians are mainly about spreading hatred. A pastor that professes love for everyone is ostracized and the nutbag that said that all gays should be killed receives applause.

The influence of the Christian Taliban is increasing.

Sadly, this is too true, but was foretold by Christ Himself, who did say that those who do His work should expect persecution and rejection from their family and friends.
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:40 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,400,837 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by reconmark View Post
So many tepid Christians today are eager to dismiss the Gospel for public approval. Christians are to love all sinners and condemn the sin. I can love a person with all my heart and despise their sin.

In other words if my son or daughter were hooked on drugs and stealing from me, I would not hate them; I would hate their addiction.

Christianity was never meant to change according to societal norms and it should not. Some actions are sinful in the eyes of God and he is unchanging.

This Pastor decided to disregard the word of God and his congregation used wisdom and discernment and made the correct decision.
What is 'sinful' about a person being in a loving committed relationship with another person?
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:41 AM
 
16,431 posts, read 22,220,957 times
Reputation: 9628
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
Sadly, this is too true, but was foretold by Christ Himself, who did say that those who do His work should expect persecution and rejection from their family and friends.
Approving of homosexual behavior is not doing Christ's work!!!
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:42 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,400,837 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
But, wait....there's more to the story.

Same-sex marriage, like homosexuality itself, is a sin. But, did not Jesus himself tell us to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's? In other words, didn't He tell us to submit to the law of the land, to be good citizens, to obey the law? Did He not tell us that to do otherwise is sin?

Yes, He did. So, what does "render unto Caesar" mean in a nation which is self-governing and based upon the rule of law, as codified by the Constitution? Does it not mean that we must hold allegiance to that Constitution in order to be good, faithful followers of Christ?

Yes, it does. And, nobody has yet been able to demonstrate how denying gay couples the right to a legal marriage is found in that Constitution. The Declaration of Independence proclaims that we have the unalienable right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," and the Constitution was written to prevent our government from denying us those rights. It does not GRANT us our liberties, but protects the liberties we already have from our Creator.

Consequently, if a gay couple defines for themselves marriage as a part of their "pursuit of happiness," how can we deny them that pursuit under the rule of law, under the Constitution, under the foundational principles of this country as explained in the Declaration of Independence?

We can't. If we are to be true to the principles of self-government, we cannot deny them a right heterosexual couples enjoy just because we don't like what they do. That would be contrary to both the Constitution and the teachings of Christ about submission to the government.

Granted, The People have the right to curtail someone's pursuit of happiness if that endangers others or good public order. We've done that by outlawing someone's "pursuit of happiness" which involves murdering his neighbor and that's acceptable. However, nobody has yet made a compelling case to show how same-sex marriage threatens either our citizens safety or good public order. If there is such evidence, I'd like to see it. Not opinion, but evidence.

The point is that we must always remember that there are TWO issues involved here. One is moral and the other is legal. One is a matter of right and wrong and the other is a matter of rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. So long as we do not live in a Theocracy, we must yield to the Constitution and allow them the right to marry, even as we pray for their souls, abhor their sin and reach out to them with the Gospel of Jesus Christ as an act of love.
What is 'sinful' about a person being in a loving committed relationship with another person?
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:43 AM
 
25,857 posts, read 16,560,676 times
Reputation: 16036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
Approving of homosexual behavior is not doing Christ's work!!!
Christ stood for do onto others the way you would have them do onto you and the way your treat the lesser of my brothers, that's how you treat me!

This pastor may be one of the few who gets it!
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