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Actually his position is well reasoned and based on the precepts of his faith. Your stance is a distortion of his words and nonsensical it doesn't even address his points.
Cherry-picking verses from the Bible would be defined as reading verses and citing them out of context - and that doesn't just mean the context of the passage the verse is in - but in the context of the entire Bible - which is an integrated message - from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22 - every word points to Jesus Christ as Lord and savior.
Use an example to make a point so I can see how one can "cherry pick" from the Bible. And since this is about homosexuality, that would make for preferred quote. And do let us know how people "cherry picked" and why a verse doesn't apply the way it is presented.
Of course they do. Folks are born with an inclination to drink and gamble but doesn't mean you have to. I'm prone to excessive risk taking thus I don't go to the casinos or I'd lose my shirt. Self-control, you should try it.
Source: Reuters, March 31, 1998.
Coretta Scott King, speaking four days before the 30th anniversary of her husband's assassination, said Tuesday the civil rights leader's memory demanded a strong stand for gay and lesbian rights.
"I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice," she said. "But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.'" "I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people," she said.
Source: Chicago Defender, April 1, 1998, front page.
Speaking before nearly 600 people at the Palmer House Hilton Hotel,
Coretta Scott King, the wife of the late Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Tuesday called on the civil rights community to join in the struggle against homophobia and anti-gay bias. "Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood," King stated. "This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group."
Source: Chicago Sun Times, April 1, 1998, p.18.
"We are all tied together in a single garment of destiny . . . I can never be what I ought to be until you are allowed to be what you ought to be," she said, quoting her husband. "I've always felt that homophobic attitudes and policies were unjust and unworthy of a free society and must be opposed by all Americans who believe in democracy," King told 600 people at the Palmer House Hilton, days before the 30th anniversary of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination on April 4, 1968. She said the civil rights movement "thrives on unity and inclusion, not division and exclusion." Her husband's struggle parallels that of the gay rights movement, she said.
Source: Chicago Tribune, April 1, 1998, sec.2, p.4.
"For many years now, I have been an outspoken supporter of civil and human rights for gay and lesbian people," King said at the 25th Anniversary Luncheon for the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund.... "Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in Albany, Ga. and St. Augustine, Fla., and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement," she said. "Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions." - Chicago Tribune, April 1, 1998, sec.2, p.4.
Source: Coretta Scott King, remarks, Opening Plenary Session, 13th annual Creating Change conference of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, Atlanta, Georgia, November 9, 2000.
"We have a lot more work to do in our common struggle against bigotry and discrimination. I say 'common struggle' because I believe very strongly that all forms of bigotry and discrimination are equally wrong and should be opposed by right-thinking Americans everywhere. Freedom from discrimination based on sexual orientation is surely a fundamental human right in any great democracy, as much as freedom from racial, religious, gender, or ethnic discrimination."
Source: Reuters, June 8, 2001.
"We have to launch a national campaign against homophobia in the black community," said Coretta Scott King, widow of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., the slain civil rights leader.
So Coretta Scott King trumps thousands of years of Judeo-Christian tradition? I think not, her opinions are nice but don't change a thing.
Actually his position is well reasoned and based on the precepts of his faith. Your stance is a distortion of his words and nonsensical it doesn't even address his points.
No, I addressed his points in my previous post, to which he responded with basically, "I'm right and you're wrong." He did not wish to continue the discussion from that point, which is fine if that's what he wants to do, but to me that's running from a debate.
Of course they do. Folks are born with an inclination to drink and gamble but doesn't mean you have to. I'm prone to excessive risk taking thus I don't go to the casinos or I'd lose my shirt. Self-control, you should try it.
Bingo! None of us can help the things we're attracted to, but that does not give us leave to indulge those attractions. Just because one is tempted doesn't mean you have to give in to it.
Of course, the reality is that we all do at some point and in some things. None of us are perfect by any stretch of the imagination and, consequently, none of us are in a position to condemn others for their failures. Their failures, or sins, may be different from ours but that makes no difference.
That's what Jesus was talking about when He said to remove the board from your own eye before pointing out the speck in someone else's.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,171,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax
I have some questions for you.
What do you think that the verse Leviticus 18:21 means? And why do you think it was placed where it was?
Are you aware that almost all the prohibitions with death penalties in Leviticus 20 were repeated almost verbatim in Deuteronomy? But Lev 20:13 wasn't repeated at all. Instead there was Deuteronomy 23:17 about no daughter and no son of Israel were to become cult shrine prostitutes 'qadesha' and 'qadesh'.
Looking at the verses hermeneutically, Lev 18:22 and 20:13 could very well have been referring to the Canaanite practice of men worshipping the local pagan gods using male and female shrine prostitutes who were dressed like the fertility gods and godesses.
Both Leviticus Chapters 18 and 20 set the context with warnings about not doing as the Canaanites do and with warnings about worshipping the god Molech.
Look, I don't believe ANY of this is the word of God, but rather the word of a long-ago priest. However within the context of a fundamentalist belief that the Bible is the perfect word of God and meant to be understood literally, there's just no question that homosexual behavior was considered a sin punishable by death in the OT. Both Christians and Orthodox Jews believe that. One might validly claim that Jesus would have considered it to be no biggie, that it could be forgiving even as the adulteress was forgiven, but even he would have considered it to be at least a minor sin, and so would Paul and also the writer of Revelation (John of Patmos).
If you look at the Leviticus passage earlier on, you see
Quote:
18 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, I am the Lord your God.
3 After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.
4 Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the Lord your God.
5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the Lord.
That clearly means His laws stand apart, they have nothing to do with the laws of Canaan or of Egypt. The only "hermeneutics" is to place it in the context or grouping of sexual sins.
L However within the context of a fundamentalist belief that the Bible is the perfect word of God and meant to be understood literally, there's just no question that homosexual behavior was considered a sin punishable by death in the OT.
Then why does the Talmud state that no one has ever been charged with a crime related to homosexuality? Do you understand how Jewish law works and why it's impossible to be referring to private, consensual same-sex relationships?
Quote:
Both Christians and Orthodox Jews believe that.
Not all Christians believe that. In fact, the Church itself had an office of Same-sex unions and endorsed them for hundreds of years. Orthodox Jews are changing their stance these days as more and more Rabbis are admitting they are gay. Most Jews overall, however, are gay accepting and don't believe Leviticus condemns gays. Don't forget Lesbians are never condemned in the Torah.
I really wish people who know nothing about the Bible and Jewish law would stop making claims about it.
not true. part of the various old testament laws were those AGAINST homosexuality. and jesus said he came not to abolish the law but to UPHOLD it. and when he said love they neighbor as you love yourself, he didnt mean that adam and steve should be able to marry, rather he meant dont hate your neighbor. in other words hate the sin, love the sinner.
The Old Testament law had nothing to do with homosexuality, because Lesbians are not condemned in the Torah.
Homosexuality was not even discovered until 1900 A.D. Pagan prostitution, pederasty, or male/male rape are not examples of homosexuality.
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