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I definitely wouldn't bring my gun to work if I was a convenience store clerk. I'm not going to get into a gun fight for ten bucks an hour. You're going to have to pay me some serious cabbage to go Wyatt Earp in defense of your corner stop-n-rob.
How badly can you miss the point? With no defense at all, you are very likely to die in any robbery. The gunfight is to save your life. The advice not to resist used to be somewhat true but less and less these days. More robberies end now with the clerk being killed.
Seriously? You expect to hold off the government with your personal small arms arsenal? I'm trying not to laugh, but you all are making that very difficult.
American Revolution, 1775-1783. The American colonists did just that in their war against Great Britain, the greatest military power in the world at the time.
No, they've put up a litany of emotional NRA rot and disinformation that they have allowed themselves to become deeply invested in. Some might say they have been programmed.
You aren't Gary Cooper. Defending yourself does not at all imply getting involved in gunfights and shootouts. This in fact is the very last sort of thing you want to see happen. Adding guns and testosterone to an already volatile situation only makes tragic outcomes more likely. Maybe you'll win the lottery. Maybe you'll be the guy who doesn't get himself killed. But the odds are against you. This is why employers have the policies that they do. They are interested in harm-reduction. You are interested in dying with your boots on.
Oh boy! Do you think this makes you special?
I thought you said you were not a nutcase. There isn't a USSR, you know. Been gone for more than 20 years. Meanwhile, you don't have a right to own just any old weapon you want. You have a right to own weapons appropriate to self-defense within your own home. That's about it.
My copy of the U. S. Constitution makes no mention of "appropriate to self-defense within your own home". Where did you get your copy of the Constitution that states that?
It's good that you are following my advice in that case.
How would a gun have prevented that?
How would a gun have prevented that? Have you ever tried to wash a car while holding a gun? Maybe you need to wash cars on the buddy system. One guy washes, the other guy brandishes a gun.
What you are telling me yet again is that you live in a dangerous area which was noted long ago. Short of relocating, all you can do is make yourself as safe as possible. Believing that you and a gun are equal to a hood and his gun is a good way to make yourself dead, not to make yourself safer. Best of luck in not coming up with the short end of that stick.
Your logic is strange indeed. You say one is safer against thugs without a gun than with one. No, a gun is not a 100% guarantee but it is a fighting chance. People can and do use guns to resist criminals every day. Sadly, the stories rarely go beyond local papers, as the media generally will not report them any further. If I am in the yard and get approached by strangers, my hand is in my gun pocket just in case they are thugs. No, they are in no danger unless they try something. Same of people driving up at night. Most people are OK, looking for a house, getting directions, etc. But if they are not who they say and try something, I am ready for them.
You obviously prefer people to be sitting ducks and go along with thugs. That only encourages the thugs to keep on with their dastardly activities. And you call others nut cases? Take a long hard look in the mirror.
Gun versus knife. Rock beats scissors. Had it been gun versus gun, the probability of one or more people having been killed would have gone way up. There are reasons why operators of such outlets have no-guns policies and why they instruct employees not to resist and to call police once the robber has left the premises. Testosterone isn't typically a factor in wise decisions about much of anything.
Having a concealed carry, I learned that if someone has a gun trained on you already you just need to calmingly comply. There's no way you'll draw and be able to take them out before they can pull the trigger. Additionally, if he has a knife on me but there are others in the line behind him I wouldn't take a shot. Training is key to making someone effective at protecting their life and the lives of others.
Having said that, if he pulls a knife on me and threatens my life, and there's no bystanders in the line of fire then he's not going to have a good time...
I definitely wouldn't bring my gun to work if I was a convenience store clerk. I'm not going to get into a gun fight for ten bucks an hour. You're going to have to pay me some serious cabbage to go Wyatt Earp in defense of your corner stop-n-rob.
The point isn't there to defend the store, the point is so you can defend yourself. That is unless you don't believe you should be able to defend yourself and all the robber will do is take the stores' money. No, I'm sure the robber won't care if you know what he looks like and what car he drove there.
Like I said earlier, I'd rather get into a gun fight than just be outright murdered.
Shouldn't people have a reasonable expectation for safety at work?
Having a concealed carry, I learned that if someone has a gun trained on you already you just need to calmingly comply. There's no way you'll draw and be able to take them out before they can pull the trigger. Additionally, if he has a knife on me but there are others in the line behind him I wouldn't take a shot. Training is key to making someone effective at protecting their life and the lives of others.
Having said that, if he pulls a knife on me and threatens my life, and there's no bystanders in the line of fire then he's not going to have a good time...
True, sometimes we are not able to pull a weapon. Sometimes it is possible and practical to do so. I would rather risk losing my life than hitting an innocent bystander.
I wont argue about sam's, rpg's & armor-piercing weapons not being widely available, there is no demand for them, nor were they ever widely available in this country. silencers are actually not that big of a deal to make, nor are they hard to find, and they're actually quite popular in my area of the country in civillian use - I think the tax-stamp for a silencer is like $75~ish?.. I've seen people shooting with them at the range & that's one highly-controlled item that ought to be easier to get if you're truly worried about "harm reduction".. less chance of damaging your hearing while you're practicing if the gun is quieter..
Tax stamp is $200 for silencers (source: atf.gov). They're legal in most states but not all.
Armor-piercing rifle ammunition is readily available in the U.S. - .50 BMG AP will go right through the heaviest military body armor and can be purchased throughout most of the U.S.
Even non-armor-piercing rifle ammunition (such as standard hunting rounds with a lead core) will go right through any type of soft body armor like it's not even there. The vests that police wear are designed to stop handgun rounds only, because that's by far the biggest threat that police officers face. Rifles are a whole different ball game. Even wimpy rifle rounds will go right through the heaviest NIJ IIIA kevlar vests.
Armor-piercing rifle ammo sounds scary, but the truth is it's really not much of a threat. If an officer is up against a guy with a rifle, his vest is useless anyway. The type of ammo in the rifle doesn't change that. An AP bullet will actually do much less tissue damage than a hollow point because the AP bullet is more rigid and is designed such that it won't deform as much on impact. So an AP bullet is much more likely to create a non-lethal wound.
And by the way, people who buy an AR-15 are not buying a weapon but the bad-ass, Rambo, Seal Team image that comes with one. It's the same people who drive Hummers with big wheels. It's all big people still playing toy soldiers. People who never outgrew Barry Sadler and GI Joe. People say they like to blast stuff with them over at the range or out on the back forty. Some people say they feel comfortable with an AR-15 because of their one-time infantry training with them. A few people say they actually hunt with them, but many states have banned them for hunting things much larger than a beaver. Basically, there is no good reason for owning one. It all comes down to being --- cool. Is that really reason enough?
No state has banned the AR-15 for hunting anything. It wouldn't make any sense to do that. Hunting regulations typically limit the types of cartridges that can be used for hunting larger game such as deer. In some states, it would be illegal to hunt deer with a .223 Rem cartridge or weaker.
The Armalite platform is very popular and extremely modular so it's hard to make any generalized statements about it. I have seen AR-15s chambered for the following cartridges: .308 Win, 9x19mm para, .22LR, 7.62x39mm, 6.8 SPC, .458 Socom, .45 ACP, .300 AAC, 5.7x28mm, .204 Ruger. Some of those cartridges are very well-suited for hunting larger game. If you want to fire a certain round, chances are pretty good you can set an AR-15 up to do it. I have even seen AR-15s that fire golf balls.
I think there are a lot of people who like AR-15s for the same reason hot-rodders like small block chevy engines: they are easy to modify and there are tons of parts available for them. They're really a lot of fun for those who like to tinker.
Ahh...yes there ARE. There are many articles out of the "armed citizen" for instance that are taken straight from newspapers across the country. If you want I will gladly "dig in" and find you some to read.
Reality check: Most home burglars are clever enough to plan their "capers" when no one is home. No one needs the hassle of dealing with potentially crazy people. The point is to get what you came for (including of course any guns you can find) and get out again, all with a minimum of hassle. You all meanwhile quake in your boots like the bad boys are about to burst in like the cardinals in the Monty Python Spanish Inquisition sketch. Absurd.
Reality check. We are NOT talking home burglaries here. We are taking armed robberies where the victim is threatened IN PERSON. Big difference. Yes, thieves DO steal firearms from victims homes during home burglaries when the owner isn't present. However when they encounter an armed homeowner/victim it is usually quite a different story.
Rational people are happy that nobody was hurt. And helping to keep things that way on the largest scale possible is why the employer had the policies it did and would much have prefered that their employee simply not resist and not endanger himself and potentially others by causing the situation to escalate.
Agree with you there. Am glad no one was injured. If someone was however, would far rather it be the criminal. Can understand that it is employer's right not to have gun on property. However sometimes criminal wants to do more than just rob. No witnesses. Murder. It happens whether you agree or not. Happened with a fast-food manager in a city not to far from me about a year ago. At least having concealed firearm puts you on equal standing. You can argue up and down that the criminal has the drop, you have no chance etc etc etc. Still having a firearm gives me more of a chance than not having one, which would make it next to zero.
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