Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
in_newengland A 10 year clerk in a convenience store was approached by a man with a knife who was ready to stab him and rob the store. The clerk pulled out a handgun and probably saved his own life.
He was on tv tonight and he seems like a perfectly nice, easy going guy who simply wanted to live and go home to his family rather than end up in a hospital or a coffin. He's not really angry and says he will just get another job.
Ordinarily I don't like the idea of people having guns, especially handguns. Too many chances for them to get into the wrong hands (like the hands of a crazy person or a young kid). The store fired him because they have a no gun policy. He was registered to carry a gun though. He did know about the no gun policy. I think IF I had to work in a convenience store AT NIGHT, when there had recently been other INCIDENTS, and I was AlONE, I would want something to protect myself. Is there anything else he could have done? Is there some sort of better protection that the management could put in place rather than just putting guys like this out there to get stabbed and robbed?
No, you missed my point and I was not influenced at all by how the guy acted on tv because I heard the story on the radio the night before. I was just explaining his demeanor for the benefit of other readers who might have thought he wasn't just an ordinary guy.
Mostly I'm against guns unless someone lives out in the country and uses a rifle for hunting. But I'm FOR guns if the police are carrying them and I'm FOR guns if somebody is a night watchman or in some dangerous job where there's a good chance they will be attacked.
I would assume that these people who need the gun for their job (like police) have not only proper training but have been screened to see if they have the restraint to not use a gun unless necessary.
In general I don't like the idea of having guns because they can get into the wrong hands. People with mental problems get into them and kids get to them. I have a relative whose son died because he and his brother were messing with guns.
It seems that some jobs leave the worker like a a sitting duck, just waiting to be attacked--like this convenience store guy. In those instances it seems like there should be some way for the guy to defend himself and not get into trouble. I guess if they only hired specially trained people they'd have to pay them more and that would be the end of the cheap convenience store.
Here's the point you're missing..
Every time someone in power talks about taking away the right to own a gun, there's a run on guns..
So, by the simple act of talking about taking away 30-round magazines, pistols that hold more than 7 rounds, hollowpoint bullets, etc - you're creating a a dangerous situation..
People that don't own an AR-15 and who might not have ever bought one, rushed out in droves and bought AR-15's. Rifles that weren't worth $600 this time last year, were pushing $2k for much of this year. 9mm ammo, that has historically been about $.12 ~ $.15 per round went up to $1 per round, with people standing in line every day to buy more.. there were lines that were several hours long at many gun shows to buy (crap) russian ammo at 3-5 times it's normal value for about eight months after Sandy Hook..
Where did all those 30-round mags, AR-15's, and hoards of ammo go?
In your neighbor's house!
The guy who has never owned a gun before, but thinks he might go shooting "someday"..
He's the dude with five AR-15's, twenty 30-round mags, and 3,000 rounds of ammo. Real "gun guys" wouldn't pay a nickel over retail for a gun - they're notoriously cheap, and besides, they already *had* a stack of guns, ammo, and mags from the *last* gun run..
Your neighbor most likely ran out of money before he could buy a safe, so the next meth-head to break into his house is gonna find an awesome cache of weapons.. and your neighborhood is going to get a lot less safe, because there are little "weapons caches" like that scattered throughout your city.
If you're not into guns, you really can't understand the magnitude of the gun-run..
I just got shipping confirmation for primers I ordered in March of this year. I don't know the production capacity of a primer-plant, but it's got to be in the tens of millions per year, so a 7-month backlog is just an insane number of primers - and they have an indefinite shelf life..
We're talking about selling a year's worth of guns in a couple of weeks. These aren't "Beanie Babies", or "Wii fits" we're talking about here - once a gun gets manufactured, it's likely to last & circulate for a hundred years or more..at any point in the next hundred years if it gets into the wrong hands - we all have a problem.
Didn't you leave out the cold, dead, hands part? As is often the case, it's the set-in-stoners (on all sides) who are the actual problem here, and they will need to get off the pot at some point, like it or not.
You're assuming there's some possible way to "ban" guns.
There isn't. The gun violence in Chicago and D.C prooves that..
You canmake it impossible for law-abiding citizens to defend themselves in a lawful manner....
Again, Chicago & D.C are your "model cities".. seems to be working great there..
Seriously? Do you think there is much assassination risk for convenience store clerks? Or do you think burglars or muggers are out there targeting the President?
I'm going from your statement...
Quote:
Guns do not make you or anyone else safer
...
By the way... I live in East Oakland... not exactly upscale.
As mentioned my brother had an attempt on his life simply because the till was empty and my father was robbed at gunpoint with a shot just missing him and lodging in the wall behind his desk and my Uncle died in the line of duty as a Deputy.
Further, the mayor of my city and the police chief have publically said the police may not be able to respond...
A 10 year clerk in a convenience store was approached by a man with a knife who was ready to stab him and rob the store. The clerk pulled out a handgun and probably saved his own life.
He was on tv tonight and he seems like a perfectly nice, easy going guy who simply wanted to live and go home to his family rather than end up in a hospital or a coffin. He's not really angry and says he will just get another job.
Ordinarily I don't like the idea of people having guns, especially handguns. Too many chances for them to get into the wrong hands (like the hands of a crazy person or a young kid). The store fired him because they have a no gun policy. He was registered to carry a gun though. He did know about the no gun policy. I think IF I had to work in a convenience store AT NIGHT, when there had recently been other INCIDENTS, and I was AlONE, I would want something to protect myself. Is there anything else he could have done? Is there some sort of better protection that the management could put in place rather than just putting guys like this out there to get stabbed and robbed?
Herein you see the reason why people like me own guns.
I hope to God that I never have to use it... even once.
But if that one situation does arise, when it's either me/my family or some morally vacuous criminal, I'm going to pull the trigger and protect my life as well as the lives of those I love.
Could the store have done something different? Maybe. They could have done what I saw in a post office in Jamaica, NY one time. Put up inch-thick bulletproof glass between the customers and the clerks... and have large drawers beneath the glass panels into which the customers can place the items they're buying so that the clerk can check them out and give them back to the customers. Maybe they could even construct the store so that each customer must go into an enclosed area with an automatically lockable bulletproof door, and bulletproof walls, before seeing the clerk. Then if the person tries anything (which would be quite silly), the clerk can lock the compartment automatically, imprisoning the villain until the cops arrive.
The only problems with that are that those security measures would require that the store be twice the size it'd otherwise need to be... which will invariably increase prices for everyone. Also, it'd make it difficult for clerks to see other people who are shoplifting... though I suppose that some other expensive means could be employed to prevent that.
Are you a hermit? Everyone knows about the NRA. They spend millions to make sure you do.
And no one is coming to take yours away. That doesn't keep the NRA from lying about the situation though.
Of course I have heard about the NRA... just like I have heard about the NBA.
Not a fan of either and I don't hunt or shoot hoops
My neighbor is retired law enforcement and we... meaning every last homeowner on the block are glad he is there... and yes, he still has and qualifies each year with his.
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 10-18-2013 at 05:24 PM..
Here's the point you're missing.. Every time someone in power talks about taking away the right to own a gun, there's a run on guns..
The only people talking about taking people's guns away are nutcases at the NRA and the even loonier Gunowners of America. It's all part of their phony scare-people propaganda strategy. Proposals to require comprehensive background checks or to restrict the sale of weapons that have no other purpose than to kill or maim a lot of people in a short amount of time are no more tantamount to taking your guns away than are keeping RPG's and SAM's out of your hands. Do you bristle at that as well?
And by the way, people who buy an AR-15 are not buying a weapon but the bad-ass, Rambo, Seal Team image that comes with one. It's the same people who drive Hummers with big wheels. It's all big people still playing toy soldiers. People who never outgrew Barry Sadler and GI Joe. People say they like to blast stuff with them over at the range or out on the back forty. Some people say they feel comfortable with an AR-15 because of their one-time infantry training with them. A few people say they actually hunt with them, but many states have banned them for hunting things much larger than a beaver. Basically, there is no good reason for owning one. It all comes down to being --- cool. Is that really reason enough?
You're assuming there's some possible way to "ban" guns. There isn't.
There is. You simply prohibit private possession or trafficking in prohibited weapons, and if necessary, prohibit their manufacture as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippyman
The gun violence in Chicago and D.C prooves that..
Actually, the Navy Yard shooter acquired his weapons in Virginia. He tried to buy an assault weapon, but after being sued by other states for their lax policies, even Virginia has a waiting period for those, so he couldn't buy one. Freaking liberals!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippyman
You canmake it impossible for law-abiding citizens to defend themselves in a lawful manner....
No you can't. The Constitution prohibits that. Possession for the defense of your own home is protected. Have you never read Scalia's meandering and oddly crafted opinion in Heller?
There is. You simply prohibit private possession or trafficking in prohibited weapons, and if necessary, prohibit their manufacture as well.
Actually, the Navy Yard shooter acquired his weapons in Virginia. He tried to buy an assault weapon, but after being sued by other states for their lax policies, even Virginia has a waiting period for those, so he couldn't buy one. Freaking liberals!
No you can't. The Constitution prohibits that. Possession for the defense of your own home is protected. Have you never read Scalia's meandering and oddly crafted opinion in Heller?
so in one breath you're saying "nobody wants yer gunz!", then in the next breath, you're saying "except *that* gun, you dont *need* it for any lawful purpose, so i wanna ban it, even though the stats show that this particular gun is one of the least likely weapons to be used in a homicide"..
you, my friend are exactly the *reason* that "gun nuts" went on a buying rampage - you dont need an ar-15, you dont need more than xx bullets in your mag, you dont need hollowpoint bullets, etc.. once you start down that slope, the noose tightens very quickly - why *not* make people take a 60 hour "safety" course? why not require a $900 annual licensing fee to pay for victims of gun violence? why not ban the sale of more than 50 bullets at a time? why not tax bullets at $1 each? - variations of all of those "why not's" have all been proposed, btw..
As far as the Heller decision, that particular decision was the result of a local law *prohibiting* having a gun for home protection - exactly what you're saying "no one wants to do".. sorry, but some people in power *do* want to ban guns for protection inside the home, and Heller struck that law down as unconstitutional..
if you dont like guns, no one is forcing you to buy one.
I'm going from your statement..."Guns do not make you or anyone else safer"
Which you took out of context, that having been the lies told by gun-nuts as to how guns make people safer when all the numbers say having guns in the home puts people at increased risk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner
By the way... I live in East Oakland... not exactly upscale.
That would put me at exactly none of the risk that was earlier suggested. As for you and others who might need to live or work in areas with high rates of crime, stay out of the worst neighborhoods. Don't for instance go over there to attend seedy nightclubs or play poker in an alley at 3:00 am. Be sure that the security of your own windows and doors has been brought up to par. If you rent and cannot make exterior alterations, fortify one interior room -- sort of like a storm cellar -- to retreat to should times of trouble arise. Travel at sensible hours and via main and well-lit routes. Complain to management if workplace safety has been ignored by an employer. Oh, and stop over-reacting. Even high crime areas are not war zones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner
As mentioned my brother had an attempt on his life simply because the till was empty and my father was robbed at gunpoint with a shot just missing him and lodging in the wall behind his desk and my Uncle died in the line of duty as a Deputy. Further, the mayor of my city and the police chief have publically said the police may not be able to respond...So what exactly are people supposed to do???
People should keep themselves as safe as possible. See the steps above. Note that confronting people and brandishing weapons are not on that list nor any sensible other one either. If you are hell-bent on getting yourself killed, go ahead and ignore all sage advice and go to war against what you already know is a superior foe.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
