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The crime would not go away, just the effectiveness of police to catch criminals. The real problem with drugs is not so much the people actually using the drugs but all of the crimes they commit to support their addiction. Theft, robbery, burglary, extortion, etc are all common ways drug addicts fund their addiction, those crimes will not go away, those crimes are also much more difficult to solve than catching someone with illegal drugs.
You will find many people in prison for possession because that is easy to prove, you won't see all the b&e's they committed on their record because that is much more difficult to prove. Just talk to anyone who interacts with drug users and they will tell you the same.
Crime did not stop after we ended prohibition. Yes casual smokers will no longer get thrown in jail which is good and one reason I support the legalization but it will only cause those profiting to find another illegal venture if not the same one like we have seen in Colorado.
Wha wha what???
Crime greatly decreased until...
We started Prohibition again
In fact, Prohibition ended largely due to the out of control crime rates.
Bath salts or MDPV are a perfect example of what I'm talking about. They are the most destructive of all the M drugs, but since there was easy access to them, their use surged in recent years. However, I GUARANTEE you that if they legalized all the other M drugs, MDMA (ecstasy) MDBD... that MDPV use would drop to almost 0. And the other M drugs don't have the same harmful effects.
Datura is another one. People would never take it if they had access to LSD. LSD doen't kill people with overdoses, datura has been notorious for doing so. I would even go to say the same with meth. The majority of people would choose regular amphetamines over methamphetamines if both were legal and available. Meth is significantly more potent and harmful and does kill your brain, unlike normal amphetamines. People aren't stupid. They pick the best options. But the war on drugs eliminated the best options.
Yes. I do. As history has shown, prohibition does not work.
No, it doesn't. And I'm no teetotaler. However, I was never swayed by the argument that there are more problems with the legal drugs (usually referring to alcohol and tobacco) than with marijuana. I long said, yes, you legalize it, you make it easier to get, and there will be problems with mj too. And that's what is happening here in CO. A student fell to his death out of an upper story window while high. Some guy shot his wife while high. While the latter, especially, is not necessarily causal, we'll see more of that stuff as more and more use.
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Originally Posted by Phil P
Let me clear some things up. Meth, opiates, Cough syrup (Dissassociative like PCP), and marijuana ALREADY are legal. You can go get them for back pain or claim ADD. And the doctors over prescribe. Yes they did give my college guy 8 ounces. That's why he was able to roll $1000 a day simply on the arbitrage between medical and legal prices. They gave my dad 100 hydrocodone pills for a knee surgery, he used about 5.
Why decriminalization but not legalalization does not work is that the demand increases because of availability, but criminal activity still results because people sell illegally to gain arbitrage profits, like they do with cigs in NY. And any time you have illegal sales and a black market, criminal activity increases. So decriminalization only increases the amount of black market since it increases both supply and demand, but does not allow supply to meet the demand at market equilibrium prices or in a legal manner.
And no, drugs do not increase peoples propensity for crime. The ONLY drug that increases violence is alcohol. Meth and PCP have proven over and over again not to increase violence. Violent people may take them, but taking them will not make you violent.
Increased accidents? probably not. You can drive on opiates, you can't drive on alcohol.
If you fail a **** test, you can't get a decent job. Therefore, addicts are excluded from the job market.
And no, black market prices do not represent equilibrium prices. It costs pennies to make drugs. So they should sell for pennies + some, which would be lower than $4 or whatever the current rate is.
So, if you have an inexpensive addiction and can get a job, its much more likely that you wont turn to crime.
Was their crime before drugs? Yes, but that's because people were starving and unemployment was through the roof in places like NYC in the 1800's. Now, people will not starve and are much more likely to get a decent job, so the crime rate is obviously going to be lower.
Finally, like I said in the beginning, if people are going to experiment, give them the best options. It's a whole lot better for a bunch of college kids to do Ecstasy on a Fri. night than get hammered drunk. But all they can realistically do today is get hammered drunk. And their free to advertise about alcohol all they want.
Please explain how Ecstacy is "Better".
And no, "their" not free to advertise about alcohol all they want. There are restrictions on alcohol advertising. Not, mind you, that I'm in favor of getting drunk, either.
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Originally Posted by Beaconowner
Follow this logic: If cannabis is legal, than the police can not arrest you. If you are not arrested,you are not part of the crime stats for that area. Therefore, the area experiances a drop in crime/criminal activity.
That type of crime yes. And as someone who "knows someone" who got into trouble with a medical marijuana card (not obtained for real medical necessity mind you), I feel prosecuting him, then him doing the diversion stuff was a complete waste of taxpayer money. But as many others have said, the crooks will just go on to some other type of crime. There's always good money to be made in law-breaking.
Let's say you COULD tell where YOU could buy heroin today. Would you go out and buy some?
This is the problem with so many discussions here. Far too often people insist on narrowing arguments down to the individual as opposed to the big picture. It matters none what I would do. I never would do harder drugs.
When I was younger I smoked pot quite a bit. When other things were offered I wasn't interested. I tried cigarettes once and couldn't stand them but many get addicted everyday.
Now if pot was legal and I wouldn't get fired for having it in my system would I smoke again? Yeah so legalization is a consideration for many.
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Would you buy more if they had a sale? Here is a risk assessment question: What is the risk, should they ever all be legal, that YOU would use? If you wouldn't, why do you think others would? Are you naturally superior?
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Do I think I am superior to those addicted to smoking and I'm not? No, I'm lucky I didn't like them. Others are obviously not me.
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I also do risk assessment and containment for my company, among other responsibilities. Unless I'm reading you wrong, I don't think you're a risk for addictive drug use, but maybe I'm wrong, and you are a risk. What do you say?
I'm not a risk to steal from the company either but yet programs are in place to lessen the oppertunity. I am at risk of getting hurt on the job which is why we do everything we can to mitigate that oppertunity.
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Opportunity is not THE key factor in risk, it is a contributing factor. No matter how opportune you made it, I have never and I will never use heroin, meth, or cocaine. I think the same is true for you, and by extension, most people.
Most? Probably. I would be less against it if I was allowed to take myself completely out of the equation. If you get addicted and can't work I'm not going to provide for you.
The only crime that would "go away" if you legalized all drugs are crimes related to the trafficking/production/distribution of illegal drugs. Essentially, you'd end crimes against a specific bureaucracy, but you wouldn't end all crime.
Anyone who commits a crime based on the influence of or the need for drugs will still do these things when drugs are legal. Why? Because they didn't care about the laws when drugs were illegal, so there's no chance they'll become kinder and gentler now that their fuel is legal.
Domestic violence, rape, murder, theft, assault, child abuse...none of that ends with legal drugs. None of it is made better. I am not claiming it will get worse, but degenerate drug addicts will be degenerate drug addicts whether the drugs are legal and easy to get or illegal and slightly harder to get. Murderers will still be murderers, child abusers will still be wretched pathetic wastes of human DNA, etc etc.
All that changes is the number of people participating in the corporate welfare program that was once called the US prison system.
It's not separate at all, it all goes hand in hand. legalize the drugs and you make more addicts and more addicts make more crime, simple if you think about it.
There is some pretty convincing evidence that marijuana can be helpful. Cancer patients for example, increased appetite and it helps with side effects related to chemotherapy. I know someone was using it during chemo and they said it helped a lot. They asked their doctor beforehand and his advice was "I'm not telling you yes and I'm not telling you no."
These people lining in front of Colorado pot stores don't have cancer.
And that's what is happening here in CO. A student fell to his death out of an upper story window while high. Some guy shot his wife while high. While the latter, especially, is not necessarily causal, we'll see more of that stuff as more and more use.
The packages simple need to be labled: "Don't Go Overboard"
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