Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez
In the cases where our "governmental systems" treat black people different is when they give black people an advantage over white people in areas such as contracts for HUB's - historically underutilized businesses.
The only real deficiency in the criminal justice system is in regards to economic class. Since black people tend to be overrepresented in the lower economic levels, this will hit them harder; however, it's not based on race, it's based on economics.
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Somehow I overlooked this quote! Pedro, I work in government contracting, primarily federal procurement as it relates to FAR (federal acquisitions regulations) and CFR (code of federal regulations).
The feds do not provide advantages to minority or women contractors as it is unlawful to do so. Agencies do have "goals" for MBEs, WBEs, and DBEs (disadvantage business enterprises along with small business enterpriseses - SBEs and even Veteran owned Business Enterprises).
Less than 5% of all the government contracts in this country are awarded to minority or women owned businesses so things you've heard are not true in this regard.
Mind you, many states due have preferences in regards to government contracts or "set-backs." The state where I live - Ohio, I know does have set-backs for minority/women/small/veteran owned businesses, but the majority of those awards do not go to black owned businesses and all black people are not business owners nor do we get money from government contracts. But we are affected by the racial injustices of our criminal justice system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario
I agree.
Where are you located?
Yes, I remember the George Willborn case. Something similar happened to me in 2004. I am not a millionaire by any means, but whites refused to sell to us when they found out what we looked like.
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I currently live in Toledo, OH. I am from here and my city currently is similar to what Kibby described below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibby
It's difficult for some of us to even relate to the type of posts I see on City-Data.
I was born in the 1940's - I had Black students (but not many) in my high school. My City of about 300,000 was already integrated. I never saw a "black only restroom or water fountain" in my entire life. I never saw any segregation until I lived in Austin, TX .... which was segregated and divided by the Freeway that cut through the City. It still is to some point.
I have lived in a City of almost 300,000 for over 40 years and I can tell you for sure that there is NOT a single block in this City that is totally Black. I bought a brand new home with a Black neighbor and don't ever recall there being no Black families on my block. My kids grew up with Black friends and my Grand Daughter and the one of the God Parents of all my Grand Children is Black. It's about People and not about a label of color. I actually have next door neighbors now that are genuine African Americans from Nigeria. They have been here for over 20 years, are Citizens and make it clear they don't want to be called "African Americans" ..... they became Americans and are extremely proud of that.
I've come to believe (among other things) that WHERE you live is Critical - what part of the USA you live in. I do understand that the North and even the Mid West have racial problems, and am forever grateful that I and my family don't live in those areas. The Black population in my City doubled in 2 years after Hurricane Katrina .... we were an evacuation City and I worked that Evacuation for over 6 weeks to help people who had to leave. The people who came here were absolutely shocked at the difference from New Orleans to our area ..... they chose to stay and it's been great for our area. They saw a chance to get out of the mess they lived in and move forward without the baggage. They opted to give up all they knew to give a better life for themselves and their children. The USA is not Cookie Cutter. People have choices.
Once again ... Where you live is CRITICAL.
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And Kibby, I do live in the Midwest. We really dont' have many issues at all IMO in our neck of Ohio. Other parts of the state do have issues though because they have more of a history of poor race relations.
But my great grandparents went to school with whites back in the 1930s. There was a historic "black" part of town, but we also had many ethnic European enclaves. Race relations here were good compared to other midwestern cities, which is why a lot of blacks moved here in the 1920s and forward. Many also moved here from Detroit that I know of via local history and genealogical reserach due to less discrimination here. Discrimination was a factor, especially in regards to economic opportunities though being that blacks in the area were pigeonholed like in other areas into more menial jobs. My family has been in this neck of Ohio since the 1820s-1830s that I have tracked so far and I have found many academic and social research information on "negroes" in this area that showed that even those who lived here prior to the great migration north, faced economic hardships compared to white immigrants who had more upward mobility due to being white. They could become supervisors at factories. They could get a college degree and be able to find a job in their field instead of being an elevator boy or a janitor. My own family was not poverty stricken but was pretty well educated, everyone had high school diplomas, even my great grandparents and most of my great great grandparents who lived in this area. My great great great grandparents owned their own farm in the rural metro counties of this area but sold it and moved to the city around 1880.
But that lack of economic opportunity did and does still have an affect not only on my own family but on many black Americans in this country, no matter the area as these attitudes and opportunities afforded to black Americans mirror each other in practically ever corner of our country. The ones faced here were subtle and rarely were there any incidents or circumstances beyond these, but they do have an affect when you cannot get the capacity to earn more money in a field of which you are qualified. Your children will have to go to poorer schools, you'll have to live in poorer neighborhoods with less services, which means more room for illness, etc. All these things are connected and have the potential to affect many generations.
Which brings me to this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar
Just reading between the lines here for a minute. You know what a lot of this sounds like to me?
Black (Hurt and angry): You don't like us!
White(Trying to reassure): That's not true. There are some of you who are lawless or messy and that we don't like.
Black: No! We know all of you don't like any of us. It's because of the color of our skin.
White: Please believe us when we say it isn't your skin color. There are White people who are lawless and messy we don't care for either. And there are a few outright racists but most of us don't care for them either.
Black: No! You still like them better because they are White. We can tell.
White: Really, we don't think about you that much one way or the other.
Black: See? You don't like us.
Many times in my discussions about race with black people over the years, no matter how much I try to indicate willingness to be honest and friendly and show good will I've felt double-binded. It's as though no matter how honestly I answer from my perspective I'm told I don't really know. It often feels like something is wanted from me but I don't know what it is or how to make it happen. It all feels like a huge gap of yearning and misunderstanding filled up with outrage to cover up hurt.
I wonder if black people who always feel discriminated against ever think about how sad some of us feel about this. It's like that friend who is forever nagging you to provide some kind of reassurance that you just can't give because the emptiness isn't yours to fill.
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I have never said to any of my white friends and associates that they don't like me.
That doesn't even sound like the most whiniest or militant of black people I know.
More than likely the conversation you are trying to relay goes like this:
BLACK: _____ is an example of how our society still racist/prejudice/stereotypical against blacks
WHITE: I don't agree. American has gone beyond race. We wouldn't have elected a black president if the country still had any racist views/attitudes/prejudices against black people
BLACK: The president has nothing to do with this. _______ is an example of racism. It can be related to (insert historical event or personal story)
WHITE: The past is over. THAT never happens anymore. Maybe you deserved ______ due to how you were dressed or how you act.
BLACK: The past still affects us and (on personal story) if ____ were white, that would not have happened.
WHITE: I don't have anything to do what happened in the past. If ______ were white it would have happened too. ______ happened to Irish people.
And so and and so forth.
FYI, black people worth anything don't care if white people like them or not. I know I could care less about that. I honestly think that that phrasing of yours was based in a historical attitude of perceived superiority/parental figure that many whites have about themselves in relations to minorities. That we, especially black people should "assimilate" or try to gain your favor.
FYI, we don't care about gaining your favor. Your opinion or like/dislike of us is not important at all. What is important is that our rights as Americans are respected.
I will also mention, that you too Kibby brought up something in relation to trying make it seem like black people are "outsiders." You mentioned your Nigerian neighbor being "genuine African Americans." Why does it matter if a black person who is not from Africa wants to call themselves an African American. I personally don't and a large percentage of blacks in this country don't, yet you seem to look down on those who do due to your own attitudes and perceptions about blacks who do.
I am much more American than most whites in this country IMO. My family has been here for MANY generations and didn't get here in the late 19th or 20th century. Even if I did call myself an African American, I would still feel that way as most African Americans are the same. We have long roots in this country. The majority of what makes America great was heavily influenced by black people. So unless you are seeking to be divisive, you shouldn't care what people label themselves. I don't think anything less of Italian Americans or Irish Americans or Scots-Irish or Hungarians or Germans or Greeks or Poles and I know white people of all variety who are proud of their ethnic identity just like African Americans are.
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