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The greatest leaps forward for America were when monopolies like standard oil were in complete control over huge sectors of the economy. It wasn't government that ran the railroads, pulled the oil out of the ground, refined the oil, built the steel plants, etc. Of course that doesn't really fit into your neat little government provided box.
And how many people from how many generations had to suffer for those gains? It's funny that libertarians criticize Mao and Stalin for these enormous projects they did that killed and caused millions to suffer but ultimately developed their country, when the same thing essentially happened during America's robber baron phase (even to the point of using the exact same "Great Leap Forward" terminology!).
Last edited by Mini-apple-less; 01-22-2015 at 11:49 PM..
The greatest leaps forward for America were when monopolies like standard oil were in complete control over huge sectors of the economy. It wasn't government that ran the railroads, pulled the oil out of the ground, refined the oil, built the steel plants, etc. Of course that doesn't really fit into your neat little government provided box.
That's a pretty subjective "greatest leap forward". You realize the government just bought or stole (broke treaties) the "West" and pretty much all the land not part of the original colonies. That land was sold to families and land speculators through various Homestead Acts of the 19th century. The railroads would have never happened without government and that became the engine (literally) that caused America to expand geographically and economically. We weren't a major industrial power until the 20th century and the The Sherman Anti-Trust Act (1890) had already started breaking up the monopolies. Obviously the 20th century was the period in which America grew the most.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475
The myth is that a free market means a zero regulation Wild West free-for-all. You all would know that if you had read The Wealth of Nations.
The myth of the free market is that there will always be dubious dealings between public and private that led to advantages for certain industries or companies. I understand no sane person or businessman would truly want a wild-west type scenario, but there are consequences to any approach.
Agree? No, forced. Using government to force some people to pay a higher percentage because you can't make it on your own is stealing no matter how you try to justify it.
When our country was bleeding, he bled us with leeches
Nope. You agree to the terms and conditions when you live here as a citizen, you can always live somewhere else. Nothing is forced. You seemed confused how it works.
Who is "he"? America has generally had a lot of poor people (leeches) ever since its conception.
And how many people from how many generations had to suffer for those gains? It's funny that libertarians criticize Mao and Stalin for these enormous projects they did that killed and caused millions to suffer but ultimately developed their country, when the same thing essentially happened during America's robber baron phase.
You really just compared Mao and Stalin to people like Rockefeller, Vanderbilt and Carnegie? Seriously? WTH is wrong with you people?
You really just compared Mao and Stalin to people like Rockefeller, Vanderbilt and Carnegie? Seriously? WTH is wrong with you people?
The profits of the robber barons wouldn't have been possible without theft from this country's first nations (along with the workers including women and kids they exploited) so the whole idea they were these heroic Atlas type figures is completely wrong.
95% of you who masturbate yourselves to the delusion of being a middle class private industry success would be selling your daughters for sex slavery, or committing mass suicide.
You'd have no chance of even getting by.
4% would work as glorified servants in various positions.
1% would rule with an iron fist. Computer software would fill in the gaps. Most of you who work "private jobs" and milk "private industry retirement funds" were recipients of glorified jobs programs created by the government, you just didn't understand how it all went down.
Most "skilled trades" aren't necessary. Tech could replace nearly all of you, and would given a truly free market.
The profits of the robber barons wouldn't have been possible without theft from this country's first nations (along with the workers including women and kids they exploited) so the whole idea they were these heroic Atlas type figures is completely wrong.
No one said they were saints but in case your memory is short you compared them to people who killed between 60 and 100 million people depending on different estimates. No one knows the exact number because they didn't give a crap about factual statistics. When the census takers reported Stalin lost 8 million people Stalin had the census takers rounded up and sent to prison or shot.
The other poster has no idea. It's just an article of faith, taken on blind faith in those he believes are his intellectual superiors, and he simply fails to recognize the gigantic contradictions he accepts without question.
All he has to do is explain "how". Detailed. Not just "we both know" nonsense.
But when you were asked to defend your position, you declined to do so.
Explain how a government that defends the freedom and sovereignty of the individual can be "government by the wealthy"? Any more or less than what we have now?
Every Democrat in elected to office is rich. Every one. They get rich by spending and directing more than 1/4 of the entire economy's output via government policy and action. Thus, they are the targets of influence buying.
When government can do nothing which is worth buying... Noone will seek to buy those in it to influence things in their favor.
I will not spend millions to influence you, because you can do nothing for me.
If government can do nothing for for anyone, then nobody has any interest in buying them.
Such elementary truth, and you comprehend nothing of it.
I consider myself a somewhat intelligent person.
I don't understand how your opinions prove my original statement incorrect.
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