Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It's been pointed out many times here on CD that the wave of world socio/economic/political events is and always will be the result of natural upheavals that men erroneously think they can affect. Religion and it's power to hold sway over its adherents has been one aspect of those natural events. I'm using the term "natural" in order that people can hopefully understand religion as one of man's most natural inclinations, within the theo/confines of most fundamentalist religious views lies the fuel for the fires of extremism and hatred.
Tim Mcveigh and Terry Nichols considered themselves soldiers, fighting the gubmint infidels and in this view they found plenty of company right here in the good 'ol USA. Most of the Islamic extremists are on a par with all the other extreme groups killing under the banner of their God, personally I have little use for anybody with extreme views. The latter day theo-terrorists arising from every stripe of believer the world over hasn't given a positive spin on religion, any religion.
We've seen our own brand of American theo-terrorist in the form of anti abortion doctor killers, or the Utah brothers that were the subject of a book titled "Under The Banner of Heaven". Extremist Christians have as little concern for their brothers as do the misguided Islamic murderers in Syria.
Where ya gonna go when your whack-nut neighbor is trying to kill you? Wars, fought for whatever reason, cause the innocents to "vote with their feet", I've seen here on the forum a ton of advice that includes the line, "if you don't like it here, just move." Those fleeing the Islamic madness are the ones who most likely want to live in peace, otherwise they'd stay where the world has gone bloodbath crazy.
Of course many here will want to have you believe their intentions to exclude as simply being a concern for "our way of life," that our "way of life" has many definitions seems lost on the masses who don't even agree among themselves here on CD most of the time. A thorough reading of the history of modern man will surely reveal the fact that human migration has been the one constant, and we know that it will continue in spite of all that resists it.
Couching the mainstream Islamic adherents as a group related to the wahhabi conservative school of thought is disingenuous at best and only serves to deflect the truth of a serious split in the Islamic faith. Christians are obliged to live in harmony and peace with the rest of the world, as are the Islamic faithful, the failure on both sides just shows the natural tendency to hypocrisy, and no law or theology will change that.
I find it hard to argue with anything written here, and/or I agree. Nicely written. Off the cuff or prepared sometime before?
In any case, I suspect we confuse the conflicts of religion with a good deal more going on than just a difference of faith, and though there have been periods of significant violence in the name of these religions before, there is no doubt a conflict that continues to grow between Islamist extremists and their enemies, perhaps most notably the Western world. I too believe that extremists are a real problem no matter the God or cause, but my concern is that the number of extremists seems to be growing when you would think the natural order of things would bring the opposite.
I agree with Obama who is reluctant to keep fueling the fire with futile warfare, and I agree that it is better not to put our troops in harms way for other than a good cause that can be won. On the other hand, I wonder what it will take, how long, before the ignorance that brings all this violence and terrorism might finally be corrected.
IOW, if left unattended, will the extremists and terrorists become more of a problem or is it possible they will burn themselves out like any fire eventually does? What to be done? That's what I'd like to know...
The middle east fundamentalist factions have a long and sordid history with the various intelligence groups, be it the UK, USSR, or the US. The west and the old USSR have taken the low road in instigating the bloodbaths of the fundamentalist Islamic groups, using one against the other has allowed a greater access to the petroleum pool that lies underneath all that blood.
Unattended? If by that you are referring to the cessation of ongoing arming and training of these groups then yes they would naturally suffer a huge attrition with regard to those facets of support they've enjoyed. The Saudi elements of middle east terror that are carried out as a bulwark against their own detractors, not to mention a mistrust of their neighbors who may have designs on their pile of sand, are legendary in that area of the world.
Highly trained military types tied to a kind of Islamic fanaticism that includes dying as a rite of passage, have been encouraged primarily by the west who wants a Saudi presence over the worlds largest oil production, they can deal with the "family" but not so with a more theo-nationalistic group.
The middle east fundamentalist factions have a long and sordid history with the various intelligence groups, be it the UK, USSR, or the US. The west and the old USSR have taken the low road in instigating the bloodbaths of the fundamentalist Islamic groups, using one against the other has allowed a greater access to the petroleum pool that lies underneath all that blood.
Unattended? If by that you are referring to the cessation of ongoing arming and training of these groups then yes they would naturally suffer a huge attrition with regard to those facets of support they've enjoyed. The Saudi elements of middle east terror that are carried out as a bulwark against their own detractors, not to mention a mistrust of their neighbors who may have designs on their pile of sand, are legendary in that area of the world.
Highly trained military types tied to a kind of Islamic fanaticism that includes dying as a rite of passage, have been encouraged primarily by the west who wants a Saudi presence over the worlds largest oil production, they can deal with the "family" but not so with a more theo-nationalistic group.
Again, agreed, I know the story, but what has me scratching my head lately is what a good U.S. foreign policy should look like going forward. I don't hear much that sounds at all promising from our politicians who are vying for the right to be next in line to set a direction...
Where, exactly, is this place Islamists are to be put?
Good luck with all that...
I was talking about Europe and the US, NOT the mostly 3rd world toxic dump Middle East. As long as Islamists STAY out of the US and Europe; no problem. If they try to start stuff here, they need to be punished.
I was talking about Europe and the US, NOT the mostly 3rd world toxic dump Middle East. As long as Islamists STAY out of the US and Europe; no problem. If they try to start stuff here, they need to be punished.
Now there is some clarification, guidance and direction that we Americans need more of!
Again, agreed, I know the story, but what has me scratching my head lately is what a good U.S. foreign policy should look like going forward. I don't hear much that sounds at all promising from our politicians who are vying for the right to be next in line to set a direction...
My view of the political arena is one that includes the notion that the pols march to the tune that the power elite plays. American foreign policy has always been what indirectly or directly serves the corporate interest, and in general does this to the detriment of the American people's interest, yeah, people tell us all the time that the two groups have but one interest, the corporate interest, and then the benefit will supposedly be trickling down from on high. Most of the mid east turmoil can be attributed to the fact of a Troglodyte culture coupled with an economic reality regarding that gooey stuff we burn in our cars.
I'm not sure where you are with regard to your political maturity, but even a cursory look into who and what institutions create and carry out American foreign policy would reveal a huge corporate presence, i.e., The Council on Foreign relations (CFR), The business Roundtable, The Bilderberg Group, PNAC (Bush administration), various University think tank groups, The Rand Corp, etc, too many to list but you get the idea. It isn't the people's interest that our foreign policy addresses, international trade, various treaties, monetary summit meetings, etc are the meat and spuds of these groups efforts. All of the resulting agreements stemming from these groups have a military component to them in that US and allied power is ultimately the enforcer.
As for "going forward," I'm not holding my breath for any changes to our present system, the mideast will probably keep the troops busy dying on all sides in order that agendas are met. Some think of this construct as a type of conspiracy, but on it's face it should be obvious that the policy wonks dance to the masters tune in broad daylight, hardly a picture of dark dingy back room dealing. It IS the work of Congress, the White House, and their buds in America's largest enterprises. Just another day at the office...
My view of the political arena is one that includes the notion that the pols march to the tune that the power elite plays. American foreign policy has always been what indirectly or directly serves the corporate interest, and in general does this to the detriment of the American people's interest, yeah, people tell us all the time that the two groups have but one interest, the corporate interest, and then the benefit will supposedly be trickling down from on high. Most of the mid east turmoil can be attributed to the fact of a Troglodyte culture coupled with an economic reality regarding that gooey stuff we burn in our cars.
I'm not sure where you are with regard to your political maturity, but even a cursory look into who and what institutions create and carry out American foreign policy would reveal a huge corporate presence, i.e., The Council on Foreign relations (CFR), The business Roundtable, The Bilderberg Group, PNAC (Bush administration), various University think tank groups, The Rand Corp, etc, too many to list but you get the idea. It isn't the people's interest that our foreign policy addresses, international trade, various treaties, monetary summit meetings, etc are the meat and spuds of these groups efforts. All of the resulting agreements stemming from these groups have a military component to them in that US and allied power is ultimately the enforcer.
As for "going forward," I'm not holding my breath for any changes to our present system, the mideast will probably keep the troops busy dying on all sides in order that agendas are met. Some think of this construct as a type of conspiracy, but on it's face it should be obvious that the policy wonks dance to the masters tune in broad daylight, hardly a picture of dark dingy back room dealing. It IS the work of Congress, the White House, and their buds in America's largest enterprises. Just another day at the office...
Seems no one has a clue what to do going forward, no matter what your perspective...
My view of the political arena is one that includes the notion that the pols march to the tune that the power elite plays. American foreign policy has always been what indirectly or directly serves the corporate interest, and in general does this to the detriment of the American people's interest, yeah, people tell us all the time that the two groups have but one interest, the corporate interest, and then the benefit will supposedly be trickling down from on high. Most of the mid east turmoil can be attributed to the fact of a Troglodyte culture coupled with an economic reality regarding that gooey stuff we burn in our cars.
I'm not sure where you are with regard to your political maturity, but even a cursory look into who and what institutions create and carry out American foreign policy would reveal a huge corporate presence, i.e., The Council on Foreign relations (CFR), The business Roundtable, The Bilderberg Group, PNAC (Bush administration), various University think tank groups, The Rand Corp, etc, too many to list but you get the idea. It isn't the people's interest that our foreign policy addresses, international trade, various treaties, monetary summit meetings, etc are the meat and spuds of these groups efforts. All of the resulting agreements stemming from these groups have a military component to them in that US and allied power is ultimately the enforcer.
As for "going forward," I'm not holding my breath for any changes to our present system, the mideast will probably keep the troops busy dying on all sides in order that agendas are met. Some think of this construct as a type of conspiracy, but on it's face it should be obvious that the policy wonks dance to the masters tune in broad daylight, hardly a picture of dark dingy back room dealing. It IS the work of Congress, the White House, and their buds in America's largest enterprises. Just another day at the office...
Voice of reason, yes. As for what to do, at a loss just like the rest of us.
Seems the mindless violence in the Middle East needs to continue to play itself out, and Obama is probably right to lean away from the impossible odds of exacting any positive change via American intervention, also to continue to pressure Israel to find peace with the Palestinians, and to engage Iran rather than further enrage her...
Voice of reason, yes. As for what to do, at a loss just like the rest of us.
Seems the mindless violence in the Middle East needs to continue to play itself out, and Obama is probably right to lean away from the impossible odds of exacting any positive change via American intervention, also to continue to pressure Israel to find peace with the Palestinians, and to engage Iran rather than further enrage her...
In other words to pressure Israel to import the chaos of surrounding lands?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Not exactly what I want to know...
