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Thanks for your responses. What I'm referring to is what Lilly mentioned about how Christians, especially evangelicals, are very supportive of Israel and Jews today and are almost universally supportive of Israel but the response I see overwhelmingly from Jews is utter disdain of Christians and particularly Evangelical Christians...this baffles me in both cases as to why Evangelicals are so pro Israel and why Jews or so anti Evangelical in response.
I worked several years in the Middle East, last time in Saudi, and I know Jews (including Americans) were not allowed to work on those projects nor were Iranians. I know UAE is more welcoming but I'm actually still surprised they allow you to work in some of the areas you're allowed to work in.
As to your first paragraph, all you need to do is read through the Christianity forum to see how much hate there is for Jews hidden in the posts.
Many Christians are pro Israel for certain reasons but not pro Israel in a secular fashion and not pro Jews/Jewish. I/You need to know the Christians in the US are watered down versions of their European counterparts. So what one finds in the US is individual or small pocket of Jewish hate compared to Europe where it's on a much larger scale.
As to working in that part of the Middle East what you state is true up to a point. I have two areas that work to my benefit. One is that many educated Americans have an overt fear of the ME, thus many refuse to work there since 9/11. The second is my skill set in relations to computers is such that it's not taught anymore and there no books to learn it. It's akin to the late 90's when the world couldn't find Cobol programmers to deal with Y2K and the ones that came forward were pretty well paid to leave their fields and re-code tons of software. Thus those of us who were trained (and kept all our books) in the late 70's/early 80's are pretty rare to find and fix base code still in use even though there are more modern versions of it (I can name a few American retail related corporations who still use it in relation to their inventory systems) and they are being placed in new builds. So it's either spend over $100 Million to replace a system or hire a Jew to come in and fix it for much less. The last time I got terminated from a ME contract was 2009 when they thought they found a person who could do what I do. They paid my break contract fee and we separated ways. Around three weeks later I got a call that they had an issue and I told them we had no contract and to pound sand (if you truly work in the ME/Asia, you know that contracts are very specific compared to US contracts). Numerous calls came through the night that by morning we had a new very specific contract made up with a high new contract fee and all flights to be on Emirates 1st class paid by them and a extremely nice apartment. I was in flight within a few hours. Since then I've never had a contract terminated with anyone else and now have relatives that work in UAE (my nephew works and lives in Abu Dhabi full time). There is now a X amount of Jews in Dubai where we actually have a synagogue now. Hope that answers your query.
As to your first paragraph, all you need to do is read through the Christianity forum to see how much hate there is for Jews hidden in the posts.
Many Christians are pro Israel for certain reasons but not pro Israel in a secular fashion and not pro Jews/Jewish.
1. Internet comments shouldn't be taken seriously. Many of "those" people perhaps are not even christians.
2. bolded - I would have to respectfully disagree with you.
Evangelicals so strongly support Israel. The answer is that a significant majority of American Evangelicals believe that the Abrahamic Covenant is still in force.
The Abrahamic Covenant (Gen. 12:1-3) says, among other things, that God promised the land of Canaan to the Jews forever. A significant majority of American Evangelicals believe that God is a keeper of His promises and that the "Promised Land" belongs to the Jews in belief and unbelief, in obedience and in disobedience, forever. (It is an unconditional promise, with no time limits or conditions.)
So yes, Evangelicals most definitely support Israel and the Jewish people.
Many Evangelical Christians believe that the Jewish return to their current homeland in the twentieth century was, and is, a fulfillment of biblical prophecy.
The mutual admiration between Israel and the United States is hardly a recent phenomenon.
Let's face it, The same U.S. military forces and programs that help protect Israel from Iranian missiles and Islamist terror groups also protect Arab oil-producing states. But if America’s role in securing the oil were to wane, it would be harder to ignore the cost of defending Israel, and that might force Jerusalem to become more self-sufficient.
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 11-03-2015 at 07:33 PM..
Lil, This is why I thought it was inappropriate to discuss this in this this thread so I'll respond with three sentences:
Internet comments are taken with a grain of salt.
Liberty University is within a few hours drive.
Israel doesn't need the US to protect it since it never has. Israel designed the Iron Dome and the US is the contractor for the rockets for it. The US gov't subsidizes those rockets so that the Military Industry would get the contract. So let's make this simple in relation to any aid statements: The US bribes Israel to make purchases from the US. It's not Humanitarianism, Its Big Business Capitalism. Israels infrastructure works on Natural Gas and not Oil. Israel already had a electric car system in place, but US Big Business Oil interests stepped in and undercut the costs of setting up the Israeli grid when Israeli Petrol prices dropped $4 per Gallon.
As to your first paragraph, all you need to do is read through the Christianity forum to see how much hate there is for Jews hidden in the posts.
Many Christians are pro Israel for certain reasons but not pro Israel in a secular fashion and not pro Jews/Jewish. I/You need to know the Christians in the US are watered down versions of their European counterparts. So what one finds in the US is individual or small pocket of Jewish hate compared to Europe where it's on a much larger scale.
.
I've always wondered whether or not Jews recognize this for what it is. I recognized it a long time ago.
Many will use the No True Scotsman defense, but that's a canard.
Lil, This is why I thought it was inappropriate to discuss this in this this thread so I'll respond with three sentences:
Internet comments are taken with a grain of salt.
Liberty University is within a few hours drive.
Israel doesn't need the US to protect it since it never has. Israel designed the Iron Dome and the US is the contractor for the rockets for it. The US gov't subsidizes those rockets so that the Military Industry would get the contract. So let's make this simple in relation to any aid statements: The US bribes Israel to make purchases from the US. It's not Humanitarianism, Its Big Business Capitalism. Israels infrastructure works on Natural Gas and not Oil. Israel already had a electric car system in place, but US Big Business Oil interests stepped in and undercut the costs of setting up the Israeli grid when Israeli Petrol prices dropped $4 per Gallon.
Lil, This is why I thought it was inappropriate to discuss this in this this thread so I'll respond with three sentences:
Internet comments are taken with a grain of salt.
Liberty University is within a few hours drive.
Israel doesn't need the US to protect it since it never has. Israel designed the Iron Dome and the US is the contractor for the rockets for it. The US gov't subsidizes those rockets so that the Military Industry would get the contract. So let's make this simple in relation to any aid statements: The US bribes Israel to make purchases from the US. It's not Humanitarianism, Its Big Business Capitalism. Israels infrastructure works on Natural Gas and not Oil. Israel already had a electric car system in place, but US Big Business Oil interests stepped in and undercut the costs of setting up the Israeli grid when Israeli Petrol prices dropped $4 per Gallon.
Yes internet comments should be taken with a grain of salt as you don't really know who that person is or their agenda. In my life, virtually everyone I've encountered that is virulently anti Jewish and/or anti-Israel is either Muslim or atheist and definitely not Christian.
Israel has been protected by the USA by monies and arms provide to Israel and more importantly, the fact that Arab/Muslim states know that the USA protects Israel. The USA has paid an extremely high price in our relationships with all other countries in the area and with many States around the world. Israel has developed their military capability to inflict extreme harm on those that want to destroy them but it wasn't done in a vacuum sans USA support. Almost to a person, the Arabs I talked with want to run Israel's Jews into the sea.
I've always wondered whether or not Jews recognize this for what it is. I recognized it a long time ago.
Many will use the No True Scotsman defense, but that's a canard.
The Jews know. It's the general population of Christians who don't. The Christians seem to have too much faith in newsletters and webpages. They don't know that some of these people are blacklisted from entering Israel for miscellaneous reasons. Most get caught at passport control at Ben Gurion, some get caught with fake passports and some get caught entering through Jordan. Israel is a pretty easy going country and there is a gray area. But once it's crossed Shin Bet will find them and escort them to their perspective embassies to be sent home. If they don't have an Embassy in Israel. then they will be flown via El Al to the nearest European country that El Al has landing rights that does.
Yes internet comments should be taken with a grain of salt as you don't really know who that person is or their agenda. In my life, virtually everyone I've encountered that is virulently anti Jewish and/or anti-Israel is either Muslim or atheist and definitely not Christian.
Israel has been protected by the USA by monies and arms provide to Israel and more importantly, the fact that Arab/Muslim states know that the USA protects Israel. The USA has paid an extremely high price in our relationships with all other countries in the area and with many States around the world. Israel has developed their military capability to inflict extreme harm on those that want to destroy them but it wasn't done in a vacuum sans USA support. Almost to a person, the Arabs I talked with want to run Israel's Jews into the sea.
Per your first statement, I get the opposite in the Middle East (In Africa, I would tend to agree with you). Keep in mind I speak Arabic and use dialects correctly. Basically (for the most part, but there are bigots everywhere) the Arab citizens basically state "Not my country, not my problem". Fwiw Arab Christians fear Arab Muslims. Most of the Arabs in the US are Christian and not Muslim.
As to your second statement it's not the USA they are worried about. It's if Israel has Nuclear weapons or not. Israel has a large enough arsenal of missiles to flatten Syria at least twice over. Plus the USA has a storage depot hidden in Israel that is large enough to do it a third time. Look at the Gaza war last year, Israel didn't use any long range high yield missiles in which they could have wiped Gaza off the map. Instead they used their stock of short range low yield missiles for which there are numerous videos where a building was hit yet the buildings adjacent to it were still standing with some minor damage.
Even if Israel didn't exist, the USA would have nearly identical problems. The USA does not understand tribalism and that bribery works much better than feet on the ground. The USA dropping $110 Billion on pallets didn't work too well in Afghanistan/Iraq since they simply passed it out to whomever instead of the tribes who really mattered. Yet Europeans have it pretty easy even though they screwed up the Middle East and Africa the most. Bribery works, negotiations don't. Everyone considers the USA a paper tiger in so many ways.
Per your first statement, I get the opposite in the Middle East (In Africa, I would tend to agree with you). Keep in mind I speak Arabic and use dialects correctly. Basically (for the most part, but there are bigots everywhere) the Arab citizens basically state "Not my country, not my problem". Fwiw Arab Christians fear Arab Muslims. Most of the Arabs in the US are Christian and not Muslim.
As to your second statement it's not the USA they are worried about. It's if Israel has Nuclear weapons or not. Israel has a large enough arsenal of missiles to flatten Syria at least twice over. Plus the USA has a storage depot hidden in Israel that is large enough to do it a third time. Look at the Gaza war last year, Israel didn't use any long range high yield missiles in which they could have wiped Gaza off the map. Instead they used their stock of short range low yield missiles for which there are numerous videos where a building was hit yet the buildings adjacent to it were still standing with some minor damage.
Even if Israel didn't exist, the USA would have nearly identical problems. The USA does not understand tribalism and that bribery works much better than feet on the ground. The USA dropping $110 Billion on pallets didn't work too well in Afghanistan/Iraq since they simply passed it out to whomever instead of the tribes who really mattered. Yet Europeans have it pretty easy even though they screwed up the Middle East and Africa the most. Bribery works, negotiations don't. Everyone considers the USA a paper tiger in so many ways.
Foreign Policy in the ME goes way beyond Israel and Oil. It still is an extension of the Cold War and Great Game before that - who is our Ally and who is not.
Remember for most of the Middle East it doesn't matter what the people/citizens think - the ruling family or dictator is the only one that matters and for the most part the US gets used as a backstop to protect their independence (rule) and as a handy scapegoat to blame for whatever goes wrong (Saddam, IS, Sectarianism, Israel, etc.).
I am not the best informed of persons but I don't see much benefit from US Policy over the last 15 years or so.
For the longest, the idea of the US meddling in the Middle East for oil has been regarded as an anti-war conspiracy theory. This is the narrative from right side of the spectrum. But in reality, is it really a conspiracy theory? I mean many historians and political scientists have been contending that US foreign policy in the MENA is indeed driven by oil interest.
Oil has been an important factor in geopolitical affairs for more than a century. No educated person, left or right, would call that a conspiracy theory.
Having said that, there are a lot of other competing factors. Our ME policy cannot be solely explained by oil thirst. Support for Israel is the worst imaginable thing we could be doing if we want easy access to oil. The Joint Chiefs of Staff told Truman that very thing in 1948, and were ignored.
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