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There is nothing wrong with climbing the ladder as a couple. You can achieve success as a team. I think if you wait too long you can see yourself as a team of one and it is hard to really commit to sacrifices of being half of a couple. People who have a lot sometimes have difficulty sharing and marriage is about sharing. If you grow together you see the results of success as something achieved with effort and support of both partners and it is a bonding experience.
People still meet in college and get married when they are starting out in careers.
That's fine too, and I don't think there's anything wrong with doing it alone OR as a couple. But in my experience it can be hard to FIND that person while you're climbing at the beginning of your career. If I had found "the one" in high school, then sure, I wouldn't have minded getting married at all. But if you need to search, it can be very time-consuming, especially in a big city.. it seems like endless dates before you find someone. For someone who works 10 hrs a day, or travels most of the week, that's pretty tough to manage... until you find your groove professionally and can get that balance. It can take people quite awhile to get there.
This is very true. I usually have my glaucoma seen to at the University Low Vision Department and my teeth cleaned at the Dental School and other medical work seen to at OHSU and I am always amazed at the number of interns and residents and technicians with wedding rings.
They aren't all post grads or seniors either. A number are marrying as 2nd year undergrads. Then when they get their residencies they have to endure a physical separation that can be a couple of years or more.
And it still can be 12 years or more before they turn their sights towards starting a family. But at least they have one another. The ones that are 35 without even a FWB type of connection with the opposite (or same) sex are the ones I wonder about. Many remain hopeful. What informs that?
Well what else would people do, give up altogether? Of course the ones who want to get married will have hope, and keep trying. Especially in the larger cities these days, 35 isn't quite hopeless yet. And anyway, even at 40, you could be getting into divorcee market territory so IMO there is always SOME hope of finding a mate.
I'll say that dating was particularly difficult for me when I lived in Atlanta. I wanted to date someone who had their stuff together at least as much as I did - and that was particularly hard. On the flip side, it's one of the reasons my partner and I are considering moving back to Atlanta. Less competition.
Dating in Boston is a difficult kind of challenge due to the cost of living, but at least just about everyone I dated before meeting my partner had a master's degree or was working toward one, had a retirement account, were moving up the corporate ladder, and had side gigs and volunteer positions to get their name out there, network, and build meaning into their lives outside of work. Sure, they might live with roommates in a dumpy apartment and be saddled with student loan debt, but they had goals on the horizon. Often that horizon means leaving for less competitive markets (dating, career, education, etc) to succeed after making a name of yourself here, but that pushes other milestones further down the road.
I have thought about how geography could affect dating. In terms of being a millennial, I can understand where you're coming from.
Competition in Atlanta city is on the rise. More people are moving to the Atlanta area. Boston, I can understand the desire to be there. The Athens of the USA. A biotechnology center. I do know that Boston is a very competitive place. I expect that from the Boswash corridor. I know a few people who live in the DC area. From what I've heard, it is competitive, and stressful. The likelihood of finding more goal-oriented people in Boston is higher. Your partner is indicative of that. Returning to the Atlanta area might help with the cost of living. One concern is the pay scale.
I went to college in the suburbs. When I finally did decide to throw my lot in and try dating, it was rough. I waited until I had a job to try dating(the job I had in college). I found in nearly impossible. Alot of women had boyfriends. I tried a few times but got turned down, or stood up. It seemed like the single women who had their stuff together, or who were at least hardworking and goal-oriented, didn't really want much to do with me. At least in my experience. The women I seemed to attract(and it was very few) were either hood rats, or some woman who just didn't seem to have goals.
Fast forward to my adulthood. I can't say I have everything together. Things went awry around the time I graduated from college. Wound up living with my parents again. I still do to this day. However, I do have a good job. I am working on building for myself. I am still playing catch-up from being down. I technically could move out of my parents house, and part of me wants to. However, it seems cheaper to just stay with my parents, help out with the bills.
That said, being who I am, I want to further my own career, move up in the world before I get married. One thing I have noticed is that at 30(turning 31 this month), I am finding the pickings among women to be slimmer, and of poorer quality. I will either have to date markedly younger women(those around 22-24, and I don't want that) or lower my expectations. At this point, I don't think now is the good time to have a girlfriend. I need to get EVERYTHING in my life right before getting a girlfriend.
Does this mean that millennials are a bunch of spoiled brats!!!
Marriage was never a great idea. Men, by nature, want to screw everything they can. Women, by nature, want to have babies. The two don't mix. Religion demanded marriage because it was a way to control men.
Now that religion is losing its grip on society, marriage is falling out of fashion.
If you want to live with someone, go live with them. You don't need a legal binding contract and a guy with a robe to do it. And when it's done, go your separate ways, and maybe even remain friends.
Everyone isn't in a major city becoming high paid professionals and getting hundreds of thousands in debt. So a lot of this doesn't apply to many young people.
Average millennial with average job who cannot meet a suitable partner or is too picky is a different type of issue. Family oriented types tend to find each other and marry fairly young.
A lot of people do linger at home too long playing video games and less face to face socializing which has to be a factor. Online dating is kind of fake, lots of lying and hyperbole.
Millennials are the children of the "Greed is good" yuppies so it is easy to be spoiled. I was, I admit it. Now that I have a decent paying job (I wish I got paid more for what I do but being in the public sector is a pay cut already) I do stop telling my parents to buy stuff for me. If I can't afford it, I don't get it (not that I truly did before.)
As for the women who look for "having your ****" together in dating profiles, it is hard to know if they do or don't. Every puts their best face forward online and/or on dates. Me I am truthful. It may not get me my share of dates but damn it, it's me take it or leave it.
That said with the renting cars, it might work first night, even second night but eventually the truth has to come out. I chose to do it early on. If the girls cannot accept a 268 lbs man well lives with their parents due to bills I couldn't avoid yet works hard, that's on them and I'll eventually find someone that does realize my path isn't exactly choices but road blocks I have to navigate.
"Greed is good", that is pretty much the 80s mantra. That has continued today.
I never thought how fake dating profiles could be. I too am a "take it or leave it" kind of person. This has likely made me perennially single.
I don't rent cars. I went into debt for an education. I'm not going into debt for anything else. In terms of finance, I have to consider what helps me. It is not worth going into debt for a home or a car, period.
As for size, I have dealt with the opposite problem. I've always been a small guy. Short(5'5") and athletic. I was told flat out in high school I was too small by a few girls. Nowadays I see dating profiles where it says "no shorties".
Religion demanded marriage because it was a way to control men.
Wait, what? Historically, marriage - at least in Greek, Roman and Abrahamic religion - controls women. Essentially, it's there to ensure that a man can make sure his sons were actually of his lineage. Look at the wildly differing norms for extramarital sex as they applied to men and women.
That's fine too, and I don't think there's anything wrong with doing it alone OR as a couple. But in my experience it can be hard to FIND that person while you're climbing at the beginning of your career. If I had found "the one" in high school, then sure, I wouldn't have minded getting married at all. But if you need to search, it can be very time-consuming, especially in a big city.. it seems like endless dates before you find someone. For someone who works 10 hrs a day, or travels most of the week, that's pretty tough to manage... until you find your groove professionally and can get that balance. It can take people quite awhile to get there.
Ding ding ding.
I found "the one" when I was 17. He was very obviously not "the one" by 19. Same with "the one" I met at 20. He was several years older and established in a career - we were house hunting. Then we lived together and I realized that while he was a feminist and supported my career, he wouldn't be happy with a wife who demanded that her career hold equal weight as his did. And that's fine for him! Just not fine for me. I didn't have the wisdom at 20 to see the red flags I saw at 22. He wasn't "the one," not really.
People change rapidly between college and 30. I'm no longer the shy, complicit person I was at 22, thank goodness, and the type of man who I am attracted to (and who is attracted to me!) doesn't look or act the same as they once did. I've learned how to compromise in a relationship without compromising my values and my sense of self - and didn't need to experience the tragedy of divorce to do it!
It's great when couples change together, but that doesn't always happen. If I had married my college sweetheart, as in love with him as I was and as willing as I was to sacrifice to make it work, we certainly would have been divorced by now.
The last two men I dated before my partner had divorced in their late 20s. They married their college sweethearts either during or right after grad school, started careers together, in one case bought a condo - and then each couple looked at each other and realized their goals had shifted from what they were when they were idealistic, bright eyed college kids. They're just thankful they realized it before they had kids.
I didn't meet my partner until I was 28. We are old enough with enough life experience to know that this is it - and also have enough wisdom to know that life partnership is more than just a feeling. We both have parents who met young (mine started dating at 13 and 15, got married at 22 and 24; his met in college and got married right after) and stayed married, but unhappily so. I think that has impacted a lot of my views toward dating, relationships, and marriage as well.
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Originally Posted by green_mariner
That said, being who I am, I want to further my own career, move up in the world before I get married. One thing I have noticed is that at 30(turning 31 this month), I am finding the pickings among women to be slimmer, and of poorer quality. I will either have to date markedly younger women(those around 22-24, and I don't want that) or lower my expectations. At this point, I don't think now is the good time to have a girlfriend. I need to get EVERYTHING in my life right before getting a girlfriend.
Keep in mind that you don't have to date with the expectation that every relationship will lead to marriage. After a boyfriend dumped me in the middle of chemo, I decided I would just date. Dated all through chemo, despite gaining a ton of weight, losing my hair, and, you know, the inconvenience of chemo every other week. And then I dated casually while trying to get my life back on track. It's all experience - and experience is a good thing for getting down to what you want.
After my last relationship before my partner ended, I decided that if I did online dating, I would go on at least one date with any guy who asked me out so long as he seemed on a similar trajectory to me (i.e. went to college and not moonlighting as a bartender nights, no face tattoos, not dedicatedly child free). My partner is not someone who on paper I would have thought would make sense, but if either of us was even slightly more reckless, we would have been one of those stories where someone meets in August, gets engaged in October, and married by January. Neither of us is perfect and we're both still recovering from financial bumps in our early-mid 20s, and we both work 60-80 hours a week (plus he just finished an MBA on top of it and I have another 6 months before I finish my master's). We make sure to make time for each other, even if realistically neither of our lives are ideal for a serious relationship.
All I'm saying is don't put your entire life on hold until everything is perfect.
Also, don't limit yourself to online dating. It can work out (as it did for me) but it's definitely not ideal. Do you volunteer? Participate in any group-oriented hobbies? Heck, I just went to a wedding of a couple who met at my local brewery's pub trivia night!
Fewer people getting married is not something to be alarmed about. Multiple children born out of wedlock and children being raised in homes by those who are not ready to be parents, I would worry about that more. Look at the ghettos. Look at the number of number of those being raised by single parents who were never ready to be parents. The boys who learned manhood from the neighborhood thugs. The females who never learned how to be good women and slept around with multiple men. The males who slept around with multiple women, getting them pregnant. Accounts of this has taken place since the 1950s.
I myself have far better things to do than get into a committed relationship, and I am not a part of the hookup culture. Nothing cool or appealing about sleeping around-diseases, kids I'm not ready for...
Plus when statistics show most new marriages fail within 5 years, I'm in no hurry to "settle down"
Dating scene is like this, too many insecure, unsure of what they want, wanting the significant other to change, unfaithful, throw in kids from previous relationships, very promiscuous past that they aren't ashamed of, the "prince" and "princess" outlook on life...
Boy theres alot of quality people to meet...
Modern women-I want a man whos college educated, has a good job owns a house, a new car, no bills, doesn't drink in excess. What does she offer-kids from a previous relationship, debt, drama, and if it weren't for a microwave, couldn't cook.
Modern men, I want a girl whos drop dead gorgeous, cooks cleans wife material...
What women say they want and who they actually let inject their juice into them are 2 different things.. women want to have the alpha bad boy's kids, and have the wealthy beta male raise them while she continues to have "fun" with other alphas on the side.. she wants to have her cake and eat it too. Time and time again I see them caught in lies, flirting with their "guy friends" who they claim "he's just a friend" and all that nonsense. Monogamy is not for everyone.. but it would be nice to at least see both sexes be HONEST with each other. Our society is built in a foundation of "polite deception" where nobody says what they really think. I'd say it's that aspect that annoys me the most.
I can RESPECT an honest person. I don't respect people who are polite and then trash others behind their back, or cheat on their boyfriends/girlfriends, but this behavior is far more common than many realize. Trash, the whole lot of em.
Last edited by sholomar; 04-07-2017 at 12:58 PM..
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I didn't have the wisdom at 20 to see the red flags I saw at 22. He wasn't "the one," not really.