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There is no argument that Islam and gay rights and gender bending are not compatible. They are matter antimatter. Let some gays lesbos or genderbender trannys have a march down main street in Dearborn. They would be stoned.
I square it the same way I do with those fellow Christians that hate gays and trans genders, believe what you wish just do not try using the law or acting upon it physically to push your hate. Maybe you can answer how you manage to hate gays and trans genders and be against Muslims believing the same thing.
Not too many years ago, I wouldn't broach the subject with the more old school Christians, because it was pointless. They would not even consider the argument at all. Additionally, I could not expect any support from anyone else, even the ones that secretly were on my side.
Today, I can actually have such a debate and get backup. Now, I always get the same "They choose to be gay" lame a$s retort, but they will hear me through. Before, I wouldn't even be allowed to finish a sentence, and many times I'd encounter anger.
It could be that I'm too optimistic, but I have really seen quite an attitude change in just the last five years.
I wish more openly gay Christians would attend church. I think more exposure to gay people not in the closet would go a long way, but I do understand the hesitation due to what so many have experienced.
Some do. The problem is that would be very, very difficult in many conservative congregations. There may be gay members there, but it's generally not discussed, and those folks have to endure a lot of direct or veiled condemnation from the pulpit. I am not making this up. I have witnessed it firsthand, and I don't know how the gay members of these churches deal with what must surely be a very painful situation. I am straight, and hearing some of those comments hurt me. I can't imagine what it must be like to know they were DIRECTED at me.
There will be more openly gay Christians when there are more openly accepting churches.
I square it the same way I do with those fellow Christians that hate gays and trans genders, believe what you wish just do not try using the law or acting upon it physically to push your hate. Maybe you can answer how you manage to hate gays and trans genders and be against Muslims believing the same thing.
True ignorance is the ultimate practitioner of "equal opportunity" and all-encompassing when it comes to their victims of bigotry, prejudice and intolerance, no matter what they claim to be otherwise preaching...
Show me a Christian who is also a Muslim, or a Jew who is also a Christian or a Buddhist, and then we'll talk about who believes in peace and the fellowship of man rather than sowing the seeds of conflict, separation and divisiveness, to the point of so much unnecessary violence!
Stop the preaching already! In the name of love and peace! Try it before all the contrary preaching kills us all...
There is no argument that Islam and gay rights and gender bending are not compatible. They are matter antimatter. Let some gays lesbos or genderbender trannys have a march down main street in Dearborn. They would be stoned.
I'll go you one better: How do Liberals square their love of Islam with the U.S. Constitution?
Wait, what? Don't wear yourself out patting your own backs, there. There are plenty of US enclaves where Christian conservatives hold power, and they do everything in their power to push back LGBT rights.
The problem isn't "ardent believers in Islam", it's ardent believers of any religion feeling they're persecuted when other people live in ways they do not approve of. As for themselves, they can believe as ardently as they wish.
Using your religion as a cudgel it's not specific to Islam. How many threads did we have defending Kim Davis? There are US neighborhoods with signs implying women to make room for men on the sidewalk, "modesty committees" telling shopowners not to use female mannequins or informing fathers that their daughter is dressed in a skirt too short. And they're not Muslim, either. They're Hassidic Jews, not to be too coy. But they're a dwindling minority and considered by most other Jews to be a bit of an embarrassment.
Ardent religious beliefs when dropped in modern societies tend to dilute due to two forces: The power of making a buck when dealing with those your religion may say you shouldn't mingle with. And the power of sons and daughters doing interfaith intermingling in accordance with powers that way predate religion.
TLDR; Both Muslims and LGBT people have a right to be who they are.
Not quite. Muslims do not have a right to practice a religion in America that is openly in opposition to the U.S. Constitution ...that is to say, they have no right to demand that we accept "Sharia Law" (foreign law) that is against our Constitution, practice "honor killings," FGM (barbaric), demand prosecution of anyone who blaspheme's their so-called "prophet," etc. That isn't what our First Amendment "free exercise" clause allows. It is not a suicide pact. It was not written to allow any damn world 'religion' to do what might harm our country politically or socially. Our Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land, and Sharia, or any other foreign law must NEVER be above our Constitution. Nor should any foreign law even be allowed to be practiced in our country.
Some do. The problem is that would be very, very difficult in many conservative congregations. There may be gay members there, but it's generally not discussed, and those folks have to endure a lot of direct or veiled condemnation from the pulpit. I am not making this up. I have witnessed it firsthand, and I don't know how the gay members of these churches deal with what must surely be a very painful situation. I am straight, and hearing some of those comments hurt me. I can't imagine what it must be like to know they were DIRECTED at me.
There will be more openly gay Christians when there are more openly accepting churches.
I must disagree (and then sign off to do more productive things with the rest of my day)...
As gays become more open and accepted, the odds will be they will be less accepting of churches, and as all the rest of us become more accepting of gays, so too we will become less accepting of churches that are essentially the standard bearers for maintaining the status quo that not only discriminates against gays, but women and people who value truth over holy books that have hobbled our progress in these regards for too long now.
Church is not part of the answer, but part of the problem, and much like we have made great progress in terms of better respect of civil rights over these past recent decades, so too I believe the drop in religious association over recent decades is also a positive sign. Simply turn to science and nature instead, and we're good, end of story.
Hanging on to church as if it can truly change or alter it's fundamental premise is ultimately impossible. Or as history has shown, church, or at least the more progressive religions, only change when the facts, science and public thinking force them to, never without resistance, but over time inevitable as even their following begins to become too better educated to hold on to these doctrines and Holy books that go back to the Dark Ages...
I'll go you one better: How do Liberals square their love of Islam with the U.S. Constitution?
If you don't know how that's done, you really should, and if you think that's "one better," I suspect you don't know the first thing about liberal thinking, or critical thinking for that matter...
I will just say this, and then I really need to stop wasting time. I don't know if I "love" the Constitution, but I very highly respect the Constitution of the United States. I have no similar respect for any religion or Holy book. Understand?
I must disagree (and then sign off to do more productive things with the rest of my day)...
As gays become more open and accepted, the odds will be they will be less accepting of churches, and as all the rest of us become more accepting of gays, so too we will become less accepting of churches that are essentially the standard bearers for maintaining the status quo that not only discriminates against gays, but women and people who value truth over holy books that have hobbled our progress in these regards for too long now.
Church is not part of the answer, but part of the problem, and much like we have made great progress in terms of better respect of civil rights over these past recent decades, so too I believe the drop in religious association over recent decades is also a positive sign. Simply turn to science and nature instead, and we're good, end of story.
Hanging on to church as if it can truly change or alter it's fundamental premise is ultimately impossible. Or as history has shown, church, or at least the more progressive religions, only change when the facts, science and public thinking force them to, never without resistance, but over time inevitable as even their following begins to become too better educated to hold on to these doctrines and Holy books that go back to the Dark Ages...
Amen.
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