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Location: Born & Raised DC > Carolinas > Seattle > Denver
9,338 posts, read 7,114,351 times
Reputation: 9487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO
Seeing groups of people that are in the billions through such a narrow field of view, you miss the trees for the forest.
Bingo!
There are an estimated 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. All of varying degrees of belief. But Breitbart has convinced some conservatives that all of them want to kill us.
Perhaps the OP should try actually meeting some Muslims instead of assuming that everyone fits the right wing stereotype of what a Muslim is.
In Muslim countries, being gay is illegal and in some cases punishable by death. And it's not because of an economic or health concern, it's a religious, Muslim, based law.
Not too many years ago, I wouldn't broach the subject with the more old school Christians, because it was pointless. They would not even consider the argument at all. Additionally, I could not expect any support from anyone else, even the ones that secretly were on my side.
Today, I can actually have such a debate and get backup. Now, I always get the same "They choose to be gay" lame a$s retort, but they will hear me through. Before, I wouldn't even be allowed to finish a sentence, and many times I'd encounter anger.
It could be that I'm too optimistic, but I have really seen quite an attitude change in just the last five years.
I wish more openly gay Christians would attend church. I think more exposure to gay people not in the closet would go a long way, but I do understand the hesitation due to what so many have experienced.
I've argued this for years from both sides. On the one side, it makes for a very difficult argument when the gay member turns out to be a long time member of the church that was raised in the church and people know as a really great person.
Leaving is not the best choice IMO. Stay.
On the other side I've asked people that if they believe it a sin, how is it helping to run that person off? I've also pointed out that I've also heard most of them gossiping in the pews which is clearly a sin.
As for me, it's a worthless argument. If it is a sin that is between the person and God and I was instructed to be kind and helping and try not to bring anyone down. I know for a fact that in the end, God is not going to ask me my opinion.
Conservatives see the world in black and white; liberals tend to operate in shades of grey.
How's that for a sweeping generalization!
I pretty much agree but I think that some militant Christians would like that tall tower as well.
I look forward to the day when gay bashing comes to an end.
If the Church continues to preach hate and intolerance - they will find their pews growing ever smaller; just as it is today.
As far as black and white or grey in terms of conservatives and liberals, it depends upon the topic or policy. Both sides can be quite myopic on certain things.
In terms of Christians wanting to throw gays off of towers, that would be an incredibly tiny percentage.
For Muslims, that percentage is much much greater; hence the laws in Muslim countries. Oh, the the actual fact that you can YouTube gays being tossed of towers, stoned, lit on fire and beaten to death by Muslims with crowds cheering. Can you show me that happening with Christians?
While I myself am not religious, I am cool all religions and people who chose to worship.
A lot of younger people I know, both Muslim and christian, are a lot more open-minded to the idea of homosexuality than older religious folks seem to be.
I too look forward to when all people are accepted for who they are. However, I doubt that will happen in my lifetime.
I agree too. One thing stands out to me however. If devotees of either Islam and Christianity have to ignore the anti gay stance clearly spelled out in the bible and Koran as well as other things contradictory to human rights and what we believe is right and wrong today then to me it puts the validity of both religions into question.
Why are you limiting this just to Islam? Many organized religions are against these, many of them with large concentrations in the US. These include Roman Catholic, Southern Baptist, and Mormon religions. Should all of the adherents of these be banned from the US?
I've argued this for years from both sides. On the one side, it makes for a very difficult argument when the gay member turns out to be a long time member of the church that was raised in the church and people know as a really great person.
Leaving is not the best choice IMO. Stay.
On the other side I've asked people that if they believe it a sin, how is it helping to run that person off? I've also pointed out that I've also heard most of them gossiping in the pews which is clearly a sin.
As for me, it's a worthless argument. If it is a sin that is between the person and God and I was instructed to be kind and helping and try not to bring anyone down. I know for a fact that in the end, God is not going to ask me my opinion.
My favorite counter punch to the "gay sex is a sin" argument is "unmarried heterosexual sex outside of marriage is a sin as well, how much condemning of that are you doing? Maybe you should head on over to the young adults singles class."
Let married people head on over to our worship center to get married, and we can get them a step closer.
Why are you limiting this just to Islam? Many organized religions are against these, many of them with large concentrations in the US. These include Roman Catholic, Southern Baptist, and Mormon religions. Should all of the adherents of these be banned from the US?
Once again, you aren't seeing gay people being thrown off of towers as crowds cheer in the name of Christianity.
There is no argument that Islam and gay rights and gender bending are not compatible. They are matter antimatter. Let some gays lesbos or genderbender trannys have a march down main street in Dearborn. They would be stoned.
I'm more concerned about people like YOU. The Muslims that live in my city do not stone people or say, 'lesbo or genderbender trannys' [sic]. You are projecting your own thoughts and blaming an entire religion of 1.5 billion. Look inward and work it out yourself.
Location: Born & Raised DC > Carolinas > Seattle > Denver
9,338 posts, read 7,114,351 times
Reputation: 9487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakformonday
I'm more concerned about people like YOU. The Muslims that live in my city do not stone people or say, 'lesbo or genderbender trannys' [sic]. You are projecting your own thoughts and blaming an entire religion of 1.5 billion. Look inward and work it out yourself.
Boom.
/thread
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