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View Poll Results: Are you happy with Trump’s deal to reopen the Federal government for 3 weeks?
I’m happy with the deal 41 36.61%
It’s ok 50 44.64%
I’m unhappy with this deal 21 18.75%
Voters: 112. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-13-2019, 09:53 PM
 
Location: My House
34,938 posts, read 36,264,326 times
Reputation: 26552

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Quote:
Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas View Post
then he should have forced congress and the senate when he had leverage
Funny how she really didn’t start saying this until he was about to lose the House.
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:55 PM
 
34,058 posts, read 17,081,326 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas View Post

why is Trump insisting it now when he knows Congress is already controlled by the other party?
Just the House. GOP still has the Senate. Plus the WH. Add in Senate 60 vote closure rule makes it a far higher bar to cross than the House.

Having just the House gives NP just two options: (1) Propose an acceptable counter offer, or (2) Continue with a partially shut down government.
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:01 PM
 
34,058 posts, read 17,081,326 times
Reputation: 17213
Happy 24th Shutdown Day.

And to all a Good Night.
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:27 PM
 
22,473 posts, read 12,003,345 times
Reputation: 20398
Quote:
Originally Posted by veuvegirl View Post
Trump offered nothing either HE walked out of the room. HE decided to end negotiations like a two year old not getting his way. That is not how negotiations work.
That's not quite how it happened.

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...-waste-of-time

From the article:

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) said Trump offered a piece of candy to each attendee at the start of the discussion, and denied that the president slammed the table.

Vice President Pence confirmed Trump's account of the meeting's abrupt end to reporters, saying the president "said goodbye" after Pelosi spurned his request for a border wall.

"The president made clear today he is going to stand firm to achieve his priorities," Pence said while standing alongside GOP leaders.

---------------------------------------------

It was the dems who were unwilling to negotiate.
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:03 PM
 
3,437 posts, read 3,288,213 times
Reputation: 2508
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Just the House. GOP still has the Senate. Plus the WH. Add in Senate 60 vote closure rule makes it a far higher bar to cross than the House.

Having just the House gives NP just two options: (1) Propose an acceptable counter offer, or (2) Continue with a partially shut down government.
thats why I am at a loss why he didn't make the effort for the last 2 years when he they control all the levers of govt?

why insist on your wall now that the House of Representatives is already controlled by the other party?
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:54 PM
 
8,502 posts, read 3,343,309 times
Reputation: 7030
Quote:
Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas View Post
thats why I am at a loss why he didn't make the effort for the last 2 years when he they control all the levers of govt?

why insist on your wall now that the House of Representatives is already controlled by the other party?
Funding for the wall along with overall immigration policy has always required compromise, which has been in short supply. This is true of both the House and the Senate during the last two years, even though Republicans completely controlled the House.

Republican-proposed bills in the House never made it to the floor because of leadership concerns there were too few votes for passage. Others - that included funding for the wall (some as much as $25 billion) - failed. Immigration hardliners (that include the Freedom Caucus) refused to support more moderate legislation. The separation of children from parents at the border was a (temporary) complication. Conflicting signals from Trump led to paralysis. That he might change his mind was a concern. Members were unwilling to commit without clear paths forward - particularly in an environment where recorded votes would be used against them by immigration activists.

The December bill in the House providing $5 billion (although even that did not specify it was for a wall) was a legislative surprise. Some Republicans who unexpectedly supported it (including some about to leave the House) indicated they did so only to avoid the government shutdown.

Compromise also has been necessary in the Senate between Republicans (who there, too, are ideologically divided) and Democrats (who share even less in common with many of their Republican colleagues). Earlier in this thread, there was the discussion of the four versions of the immigration bill that failed in the Senate in February 2018. Other negotiations directly with Trump broke down, with the January one between the Democrat's top immigration negotiator (Dick Durbin) leading to discord about Trump's comments on s*hole countries. Some of these would have provided wall funding.

As for why Trump's insisting on it now that the Democrats control the House? To some extent, that is yet another change of mind. Many Senate Republicans (including Cornyn) like their Democratic House colleagues have sought to avoid a government shutdown and successfully talked Trump down. Early on, it was thought he would sign a clean bill. Post Coulter and Limbaugh he balked; Ryan and McCarthy agreed to add the funding.

Still having the Democrats in control of the House does tend to mask the divisions within the Republican Party by placing the potential "blame" on them not Republicans. Per the above, a bill was not passed earlier in the Republican-controlled house because they could not. For all the Ann Coulters and Limbaugh's there is a substantial portion of the country (and their elected representatives) who do not feel as they do - hence the paralysis.

Trump currently holds a substantial portion of the country hostage. It's not even clear to me what his current goal is - to negotiate only on wall funding or to (per the pattern of the past two years) broaden it to immigration policy? He may not even know. McConnell appears to have thrown up his hands - he's not proposing policy here.

Many Republicans (particularly on the border) are neutral on the wall viewing it without enthusiasm but willing to "pay the price" for other immigration legislation. Certainly they certainly want the government open.

So ... who knows. It is a departure, for sure. Not just the government shutdown (those have occurred before) but that it is brinkmanship with no steady legislative hand behind it - at least on the Republican side. This is government by Trump.
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Old 01-14-2019, 12:20 AM
 
8,502 posts, read 3,343,309 times
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One other thought. Offhand, I'm not aware of any proposed legislation that focused only on the wall. Even legislation that Trump touted as early "wall payments" were, in fact, funds for border security. That the wall tended to be subsumed into larger immigration bills may well have reflected the certain lack of enthusiasm for it - it IS a boondoggle, of sorts. Trump's version that is; not all additional walling or fencing. It was a sweetener included with initiatives that Democrats (like DACA) and Republicans (like immigration reform) truly wanted.

IF the "negotiations" between Trump and the Democrats separate out the wall - that may be a first ? Dunno. Here, he literally is saying "pay me" so I'll open the government. Not cool.
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Old 01-14-2019, 12:31 AM
 
20,757 posts, read 8,583,738 times
Reputation: 14393
Article showing how Trump's shutdown differs from Obama's. The last paragraph (you have to read the article, I didn't post it here) is funny but soooo true. Lot more details as well about what remains open.

President Barack Obama was accused of political theater after he fenced up war memorials, preventing veterans from honoring their fallen brethren... the federal government spent money to maximize disruption, including shutting down parking lots to President George Washington’s privately owned home, removing the handles from bike path water pumps, closing private shops and restaurants on federal lands, fencing off a Capitol Hill turtle statue, creating new government websites to explain the existing websites weren’t funded, and taping Capitol Hill community notice boxes shut

The Trump administration has kept national parks and monuments open by tapping into entrance fees to generate the revenue needed to provide basic services. Former National Park Services Deputy Director P. Daniel Smith hailed the move as an “extraordinary step.”

“You’re always going to have criticism, but I’ll take our record of trying to make it as painless as possible against the last administration, or any administration for that matter,” the senior official said.

https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/13/r...hutdown-trump/
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Old 01-14-2019, 01:12 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,903,106 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by PilgrimsProgress View Post
Article showing how Trump's shutdown differs from Obama's. The last paragraph (you have to read the article, I didn't post it here) is funny but soooo true. Lot more details as well about what remains open.

President Barack Obama was accused of political theater after he fenced up war memorials, preventing veterans from honoring their fallen brethren... the federal government spent money to maximize disruption, including shutting down parking lots to President George Washington’s privately owned home, removing the handles from bike path water pumps, closing private shops and restaurants on federal lands, fencing off a Capitol Hill turtle statue, creating new government websites to explain the existing websites weren’t funded, and taping Capitol Hill community notice boxes shut

The Trump administration has kept national parks and monuments open by tapping into entrance fees to generate the revenue needed to provide basic services. Former National Park Services Deputy Director P. Daniel Smith hailed the move as an “extraordinary step.”

“You’re always going to have criticism, but I’ll take our record of trying to make it as painless as possible against the last administration, or any administration for that matter,” the senior official said.

https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/13/r...hutdown-trump/
The problem with keeping it "as painless as possible" is that it makes it much easier for this to extend. It is the longest shutdown and will go on for sometime. For this, I will say Trump is doing political theater by jpg holding the government workers and their families hostage. Also when this becomes a full shutdown since it is only partial for now, it will maybe actually be what Obama had.
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Old 01-14-2019, 07:11 AM
 
7,982 posts, read 4,288,918 times
Reputation: 6744
Who does Individual 1 think he’s playing on television??

https://twitter.com/keithboykin/stat...14543501570050
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