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Standard responses. Nothing is anyone's fault, discard the meritocracy, assign admissions on feelings and emotions.
All we're missing is people simply admitting that all the Asian kids kicking everyone's arses academically is annoying, so racist policies that discriminate against them are cool. At least when they did it to the Jews in the early 20th century, they had the guts to admit it directly.
Guess it's good for everyone that when Asians face ridiculous amounts of institutional racial discrimination, instead of shrieking and wailing to the media about it, they just put their heads down, work even harder, and still kick everyone's arse. Good for them.
And this latest attempt to de-Asian the Ivy league will fail, as those folks will find a way to check off all the appropriate socioeconomic freebies as is possible. Cultures who look at adversity as fuel for achievement are tough to keep down.
Meritocracy?
So you want competency when your mechanic does your brakes, your dentist fills a cavity, your plumber fixes a leaky pipe, and your heart surgeon has you cut open on the operating table?
Uh, I don't follow that. I think you're thinking way too narrowly here.
In order to do well on an interview at Google or any company, you need to be able to express yourself effectively. That's called communication.
In order for anyone to excel or advance in any organization, one needs to be able to learn to collaborate effectively with others.
You can develop leadership, communication and collaboration skills through activities such as sports, music, and other worthwhile extracurricular activities.
BTW, I live about 10 minutes from Google, and there are many people in my neighborhood who work for that giant behemoth - sure, you gotta be smart, but you also have to have the soft skills too. Ignoring that plays into the stereotype of Asians who are technically proficient but don't have what it takes to move into management.
Google software engineer interview has 5 sessions, and 4 of them are about coding ONLY.
Yes, when you write code the interviewer also observes how you communicate ideas, but only a very small portion of people fail that part, if they are very good at writing code. You don't need "leadership" to be a decent talker.
I am not saying everyone wants to be an engineer or scientist. But on average, Asians have a much better chance in tech field than in sports or performing arts. That is just a fact.
That is the key. There was a black college student who was an intern with me at Merck. He went to the University of Georgia initially and received "C" and "D" grades. He transferred after one year to a 100% black college in the south (Howard) where he received straight "A"s.
He attributed his poor grades (all of the classes in which the testing was not essay, but single answer math or chemistry) to racism at the Univ of Georgia. Of course, his conclusion was absurd, as a multiple choice test is about as anonymous as one can get. But this guy really believed it and simply could not understand that he transferred to a much easier college. This guy was a complete idiot as well, while my room mate there (a black guy from Ole Miss) got straight "A"s at his college with little problem.
At some point in life, one will be judged by actual performance.
I have no problem with quotas and lowering admission standards for minorities, but after they get in, one would expect them to perform such that they can compete and survive in their chosen environment.
Altering the admission test scores, however, is lunacy. The measure of "adversity" is way too subjective to assign a precise numerical value and makes the whole ACT/SAT scores relatively useless, unless they are nearly perfect or terrible.
Keep in mind that essentially all black doctors were admitted to med school as a part of a quota. There were black members of my med school (ironically, the kid from Ole Miss went to Iowa for med school and was a great student) who were very good, but many struggled. One of my buddies from undergrad who was on the track team (black guy) was in the top 5% and is an opthomologist today. Opportunity is all what you make of it.
I am a physician too, and I have to say that my experience was different. The vast majority of black students in my graduating medical school class were very good students. We had about 12, I think (majority female, a good number were African-descent), and all graduated on time and matched. A really good black student and friend, was in AOA, and matched into Derm. He is a practicing dermatologist now. Another, very smart black female was MD/PhD. None of the other ones were problem students.
Google software engineer interview has 5 sessions, and 4 of them are about coding ONLY.
Yes, when you write code the interviewer also observes how you communicate ideas, but only a very small portion of people fail that part, if they are very good at writing code. You don't need "leadership" to be a decent talker.
I am not saying everyone wants to be an engineer or scientist. But on average, Asians have a much better chance in tech field than in sports or performing arts. That is just a fact.
Again, you're interpreting this way too narrowly. My point is that extracurricular activities are vital to one's personal development. It doesn't mean that you're going to go all out and be a professional musician or professional athlete. These are very rare in any community.
Yes, even in software development - you need to be able to express your ideas succinctly and collaborate. What do you think hackathons test?
Leadership involves more than just being a "talker". In fact, it's better to listen more. Yes, it's important to have problem solving skills in coding. But without the other skills, you won't get far.
And for someone to get into a competitive CS program at a university, you're gonna need more than just coding skills in order to stand out. I've work with successful applicants who had a wide variety of interests, such as being an Eagle Scout, fixing bicycles for charity, being in marching band, starting a tutoring club - who went for STEM programs.
Last edited by silverkris; 05-17-2019 at 05:59 PM..
I care about my kids education and we are a 2 parent household etc yet are poor and this will benefit my children. I am cool with it. Not only will they score high on SAT but being poor will help them even more. I am sure this makes the elitists really mad.
If your kid came from an upper middle class family but struggled his/her whole life with some kind of chronic illness, genetic illness, mental illness, or disabilities, you would probably consider this an unfair policy.
I say this because my little nephew (now 6 and half years old) suffered from childhood Leukemia. He came from an upper middle class (maybe even higher) family. You simply cannot compare challenges.
Express the potential hurdles in the essays would be much better in my opinion. Plus, what about those kids who have had at least one parent who died in combat? (but this kid does not necessary live in a poor neighborhood), should the college take this into consideration as well? I am not saying this to be mean, just try to understand what seems to be fair?
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 05-17-2019 at 05:51 PM..
To your first paragraph - I have heard this point of view before, and I think there are a few misperceptions baked into there. First, there are a TREMENDOUS number of schools in low income neighborhoods where the average student does not take alegebra 2 until senior year. To be "college track" it is strongly recommended that one takes alegebra 1 in the 8th grade so you can be done with geometry and algebra 2/trig in time to be prepared for the PSATs/SATs in junior year, but the number of black and brown kids who actually attend schools that are tracked that way is not very large. There is a big difference between kids who have covered all the SAT math by sophmore/junior year and kids who have not competed all the classes yet at the time they sit for the SAT. That is a huge contributor to the difference in math scores, and why colleges will look at where the kid went to school and evaluate them in context.
This is why when people say the SAT is "objective", I always push back. Not everyone is being prepared to the same level.
To your second paragraph... many Asian families have parents/gradparents who migrated from countries where standardized tests determine everything.... where you go to college, even job placement can be determined soley by test score. So, of course, there is a culture oriented heavily towards power studying for and acing tests. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that (many immigrant group have similar practices), but America has never had an educational system quite like that so American parents have not handed down these practices from generation to generation. I think it's worth the conversation as to what super high scores really mean in that context. That said I agree working outside of school is the norm for many types of kids and does not in and of itself indicate anything about adversity or ability.
I've posted previously that these grade schools and high schools failing to prepare students should be made to get up to speed. Lower standards for admissions don't work, otherwise the graduation rate would be much higher for URM's.
Instead of doing "adversity" bonus, America should work on improving public schools.
In Japan, teachers are rotated among different (public) schools, so all the schools can have an equal quality of education.
The curriculum should be more standardized too. Those who cannot perform well academically should be sent to vocational schools instead of regular high schools. European and Asians countries all do that early split.
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