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Old 07-18-2019, 04:10 PM
Status: "Send HIM back- to Queens!" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Eureka CA
8,316 posts, read 11,168,454 times
Reputation: 12657

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I, too, support the asylum system. There but for the grace of God go you and your family. And mine.

 
Old 07-18-2019, 04:11 PM
 
11,575 posts, read 8,491,276 times
Reputation: 7151
See post 6 It is the truth.

Who thinks it's ok? I don't know a single person who thinks it is right.

Why no rancor for those who hire illegals? IMO, those American business men are more guilty than the illegals.

There was a time when the penalty for entering this country illegally was about the same as a traffic ticket. Any body here ever exceed the speed limit?

We need new immigration laws big time. No member of congress has the balls to take it on since the gang of 8 got shot down. The National Chamber wants cheap labor, the bleeding hearts think they can save the world.

IMO, any person who knowing hires an illegals should have their assets seized and imprisoned.
 
Old 07-18-2019, 04:22 PM
 
10,531 posts, read 8,478,137 times
Reputation: 19292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound View Post
What part is debatable?

All the rest you wrote is typical liberal babble.

They can simply turnaround and head the opposite direction from the border. There isn't hordes of people running and grabbing immigrants fleeing away from the border to avoid these horrible conditions here in the detention centers.

I feel like I'm literally losing my damn mind reading stuff like this
What is debatable is your conflating asylum seekers and illegal immigrants.

People in the first category have every right to apply for asylum. The others do not. Regardless, people in both categories should be treated decently while their cases are sorted out - ideally swiftly sorted out - and there is no excuse whatsoever for separating families at the border and there is no excuse for treating small children as we have seen them treated while in custody.

Even if these children are eventually refused entry and are sent back, ideally with their families, it is inhumane to treat them as they have been treated recently. It is inexcusable, and that has nothing whatsoever to do with politics. It has to do with humanity and being a nation that prides itself on our civility.

As far as turning around and heading in the opposite direction, I doubt very much that small children and infants separated from their parents or other relatives are capable of this. Nor should those people seeking legal asylum need to do this.

As for the rest, clearly our country needs to get the word out to would-be immigrants about what our requirements and policies are, and about what they are likely to encounter at the border. That would likely discourage some from attempting the journey, if their motivation is strictly economic as opposed to fleeing for their lives - or to save the lives of their children.

I'm a moderate, not a liberal for the most part - my political views do not fit any stereotypical mold. So please don't make assumptions about me. I could assume you are xenophobic, from your above post, but that would be jumping to conclusions and I have not read all your posts, so I can't really say where you're coming from. However, I can say that you are jumping to hasty and unwarranted conclusions about me. So - slow down, give others the benefit of the doubt, and do what you can to educate yourself without casting blame left and right.

Who knows, you may even find a way to help assuage the troubles at the border. You might learn about RAICES or similar non-profits who are providing legal assistance to expedite the back-up at the border, or of humanitarian groups which are trying to provide help. Give it a try, why don't you? It's more effective than just blaming others whose views you dislike or otherwise blowing off steam here on C-D.
 
Old 07-18-2019, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Houston
5,436 posts, read 2,758,036 times
Reputation: 3381
No one thinks illegal immigration is right. You only think they do because you've been influenced by right wing media and Trump. The differences come when we start discussing HOW we want to deal with it. Trump and his disciples want to erect useless walls and put families and their kids in cages. The rest of us want to go after the people who enable illegal immigration in the first place: the wealthy businessmen who hire immigrants for pennies on the dollar so they won't have to pay US citizens decent wages and benefits.

You really need to educate yourself on the issue as it exists in real life, not what Trump and his enablers want you to believe.
 
Old 07-18-2019, 04:32 PM
 
13,186 posts, read 6,289,185 times
Reputation: 10942
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieB.Good View Post
B/c I'm not kicking out someone that's worked 30 years in garage just to provide a stable life for his kids

B/c I'm not kicking out someone who was carried across the border as a 3 y/o and the only country they know is America.

B/c I'm not kicking out someone who incurs all the trauma of fighting overseas for America and then is told to get out.

If Conservatives weren't such A-holes about amnesty, we'd have already resolved the the border crisis.
So, IOW, you are in favor of rewarding criminal behavior. Criminals who go on the lam and while on the lam work "30 years in a garage just to provide a stable life for [their] kids" still have to go to jail when the law catches up to them. Why do you hold double standards when it comes to this issue?

As for the kids who were brought here as minors---there is an old saying which I will paraphrase: The sins of the parents fall on the child. It means that none of us had any control over what our parents did or didn't do to us or for us when we were growing up. If these kids are angry about this, then they should lay the blame squarely where it belongs---and that's on their parents.

We had a big amnesty in 1986. That amnesty was supposed to be the one and only amnesty never to have another again. Instead, we've had several stealth amnesties. Illegals were never supposed to be able to hold jobs. Right now we have 8 million no-match SSNs in the work force. The border was supposed to be secured. Instead, it remains just about wide open. As you can see, democrats reneged on every promise they made in 1986. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Amnesties only beget more amnesties.
 
Old 07-18-2019, 04:37 PM
 
10,531 posts, read 8,478,137 times
Reputation: 19292
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbdwihdh378y9 View Post
Those who are the "victims" chose to be treated that way. There is nothing "unAmerican" about resisting an invasion of our country.
But there's plenty unAmerican about treating babies and small children inhumanely and separating them from their families. No excuse for that.

Toddlers are not "invading" our country. Nor do they choose to be "treated that way". You are victim-blaming, and it's quite blatant.

I understand that not everyone who wants to come here should be let in. That's
obvious. We can't admit everyone. But some of those at the border qualify for asylum, and their entry should be swift and uneventful.

It's a mess right now. But much of that mess is due to our current harsh policies. Regardless of whether or not a would-be immigrant is eventually allowed into our country, there is no excuse for cruelty towards children - or adults, for that matter.

If non-profits like the Salvation Army or Red Cross or church-related groups were allowed into the border camps, they'd get things bettered within a week or less. As it is, some of these so-called camps are worse than those Clara Barton encountered in the Crimean War, when she founded the Red Cross - and that was with adult male soldiers, not tiny babies and small children.

It's obscene that federal governmental red tape is preventing the states themselves from providing better care, along with the non-profits. It's obscene that the government is losing track of small children and babies and has no idea who they are or where their parents may be. It's obscene that small children go for days without bathing, eating monotonous, unhealthy cold food and sleeping in brightly lit, cold rooms, under mylar blankets. It's obscene that seven and eight year olds are expected to care for babies and toddlers.

Who in their right mind does not understand how wrong this is, and that it's obscene for a government as powerful as ours, in a country as rich as ours, to claim they can do no better, while rejecting assistance from those who could offer immediate aid to those who are both suffering and innocent?

As for "invasion", it appears we've already been invaded by fear-induced cold hearts. The kids at the border may need to go back to their home countries someday - but right now, they're here, and they are the responsibility of the government which removed them from their parents. That government is ours, and we have a responsibility to make it answer for its actions. Those actions have been terrible as far as children in custody at the border are concerned.

We need to keep the pressure on so that conditions will be improved and cruel policies of family separation changed, regardless of whether or not these families and individuals eventually receive asylum or residency here, or if they are refused entry and return home. Right now, they are here, and regardless of what their futures hold, they need to be treated decently while they are in federal custody.

We need to remember they are our neighbors and our brothers and sisters, if we call ourselves Godly or Christian - and if we truly cherish the ideals of our country.
 
Old 07-18-2019, 04:38 PM
 
1,651 posts, read 332,264 times
Reputation: 1463
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
So, IOW, you are in favor of rewarding criminal behavior. Criminals who go on the lam and while on the lam work "30 years in a garage just to provide a stable life for [their] kids" still have to go to jail when the law catches up to them. Why do you hold double standards when it comes to this issue?

As for the kids who were brought here as minors---there is an old saying which I will paraphrase: The sins of the parents fall on the child. It means that none of us had any control over what our parents did or didn't do to us or for us when we were growing up. If these kids are angry about this, then they should lay the blame squarely where it belongs---and that's on their parents.

We had a big amnesty in 1986. That amnesty was supposed to be the one and only amnesty never to have another again. Instead, we've had several stealth amnesties. Illegals were never supposed to be able to hold jobs. Right now we have 8 million no-match SSNs in the work force. The border was supposed to be secured. Instead, it remains just about wide open. As you can see, democrats reneged on every promise they made in 1986. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Amnesties only beget more amnesties.
Great post.

These people making excuses for illegal aliens are invariably Democrats. And they invariably excuse everything their elected Democrats have done to prevent the law from being enforced. Somehow it's all the fault of the nasty conservatives.

My parents came here legally after waiting years and following the process. The Democrats AND THEIR SUPPORTERS are disgusting for wanting to punish people who came here the right way.
 
Old 07-18-2019, 04:38 PM
 
11,575 posts, read 8,491,276 times
Reputation: 7151
Ironically, the people telling Americans if they don't like their government they should leave

are the same people telling asylum seekers if they don't like their government, they should stay and fix it.

from Outside Voices this morning.
 
Old 07-18-2019, 04:40 PM
 
1,651 posts, read 332,264 times
Reputation: 1463
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
But there's plenty unAmerican about treating babies and small children inhumanely and separating them from their families. No excuse for that.

Toddlers are not "invading" our country. Nor do they choose to be "treated that way". You are victim-blaming, and it's quite blatant.

I understand that not everyone who wants to come here should be let in. That's
obvious. We can't admit everyone. But some of those at the border qualify for asylum, and their entry should be swift and uneventful.

It's a mess right now. But much of that mess is due to our current harsh policies. Regardless of whether or not a would-be immigrant is eventually allowed into our country, there is no excuse for cruelty towards children - or adults, for that matter.

If non-profits like the Salvation Army or Red Cross or church-related groups were allowed into the border camps, they'd get things bettered within a week or less. As it is, some of these so-called camps are worse than what Clara Barton encountered in the Crimean War, when she founded the Red Cross - and that was with adult male soldiers, not tiny babies and small children.

It's obscene that federal governmental red tape is preventing the states themselves from providing better care, along with the non-profits. It's obscene that the government is losing track of small children and babies and has no idea who they are or where their parents may be. It's obscene that small children go for days without bathing, eating monotonous, unhealthy cold food and sleeping in brightly lit, cold rooms, under mylar blankets. It's obscene that seven and eight year olds are expected to care for babies and toddlers.

Who in their right mind does not understand how wrong this is, and that it's obscene for a government as powerful as ours, in a country as rich as ours, to claim they can do no better, while rejecting assistance from those who could offer immediate aid to those who are both suffering and innocent?
How much of your own money have you donated to address this problem? How much of your own money have you donated to help U.S. citizens who are homeless and/or needy?


We do not have infinite resources and it is neither possible nor our job to take care of every human being on the planet. You need to grow up.
 
Old 07-18-2019, 04:40 PM
 
7,747 posts, read 4,611,542 times
Reputation: 8471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nattering Heights View Post
The world is overpopulated by several billion. The US makes that slightly worse by destroying arable land and opposing birth control in poorer nations. Many victims of US policy seek better lives or just bare survival here. I would like to see more people come from everywhere and experience diverse cultures without travelling, but the US is as overpopulated as anywhere else. We will have our own refugee waves later heading to Canada and maybe Mexico, as Mexico becomes more tropical and the southwest US becomes abandoned desert. Shady employers still want cheap/slave labor, so they fund the propaganda of let them all in.
The US is mostly empty.
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