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Old 08-03-2019, 07:53 PM
 
1,675 posts, read 577,149 times
Reputation: 490

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I just read the manifesto, it's on reddit.

He hates the Democrats as much as Republicans. He blames corporations for how bad things have gotten. Also, blames "invaders" and people who mix races.

Maybe as the war on terror has cooled down, a new 'war on extreme nationalists' will begin.

 
Old 08-03-2019, 07:54 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,230 posts, read 26,455,707 times
Reputation: 16370
Local news just did a heartbreaking interview with a woman desperately trying to find her mother and not being able to, and wondering if she's still inside Walmart. Last I heard, the bodies haven't yet been removed. That SOB shooter has affected a lot of lives. I hope he gets every bad thing coming to him that he deserves.
 
Old 08-03-2019, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Eastern NC
20,868 posts, read 23,558,348 times
Reputation: 18814
Quote:
Originally Posted by saltine View Post
Millions of invaders, 10s of thousands of Americans killed. I’m suprised it took this long for someone to snap back.
Link?
 
Old 08-03-2019, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Arizona
7,511 posts, read 4,355,916 times
Reputation: 6164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli34 View Post
Democracy works great in other countries....you just have to stay active, and come out in mass protests when they step over the boundaries. Democracy requires every day vigilance, not relying on guns as a back up in case it fails. Guns give a false sense of security.

Other countries have their own constitutions by the way.
We are not a Democracy we are a Constitutional Republic.

Quote:
A Constitutional Republic is a form of government where the head of state and other officials are elected as representatives of the people, representatives mandated to govern according to existing constitutional law. It is because of this mandate that the elected class in a Constitutional Republic is limited in their power over the citizenry. The United States of America was created as and intended to survive as a Constitutional Republic.

Our Constitutional Republic is separated into three separate but equal branches of government; the Executive, Legislative and Judicial, represented by the Presidency, Congress and the Courts. Because of this no branch has a rein on absolute power thus assuring that there will be checks and balances to the governmental system and protection for the rule of law.

Through the elected representation employed by our Constitutional Republic the influence of the majority is tempered by protections for individual rights as mandated by constitutional law. Our form of government is deliberate in its attempt to thwart majoritarianism, thereby protecting political dissent and individuals and minority groups from the "tyranny of the majority" by placing checks on the power of the majority of the population. The power of the majority of the people is checked by limiting that power to electing representatives who are required to legislate with limits of overarching constitutional law which a simple majority cannot modify.

"A pure unbridled democracy is a political system in which the majority enjoys absolute power by means of democratic elections. In an unvarnished democracy, unrestrained by a constitution, the majority can vote to impose tyranny on themselves and the minority opposition. They can vote to elect those who will infringe upon our inalienable God-given rights. Thomas Jefferson referred to this as elected despotism in Notes on the State of Virginia (also cited in Federalist 48 by Madison):"
 
Old 08-03-2019, 07:57 PM
 
1,210 posts, read 889,226 times
Reputation: 2755
Here's the manifesto
Manifesto
 
Old 08-03-2019, 07:58 PM
 
Location: SE Asia
16,236 posts, read 5,882,675 times
Reputation: 9117
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
Often enough. The arresting officer stopped and bought Dylann Roof a hamburger on the way to jail.
So not all and likely not most. After all more white people are shot by the police than people of color. Not that it matters a lick. What matters is did the perp As Dylan Roof did, surrender and comply? That absolutely matters.

The burger thing? I don't know what that was about. Probably making him feel ok to talk about what he did. make the confession easier. I wasn't there, nor were you so I dont know.

Had been up to me I would have hooked him to a large truck battery until he died.
 
Old 08-03-2019, 07:59 PM
 
Location: sumter
12,970 posts, read 9,659,574 times
Reputation: 10432
Quote:
Originally Posted by saltine View Post
Millions of invaders, 10s of thousands of Americans killed. I’m suprised it took this long for someone to snap back.
Tens of thousands?
 
Old 08-03-2019, 07:59 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,334,196 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal_Native View Post
Here's the manifesto
Manifesto
If that is really his manifesto, he is DEFINITELY a "Trump" guy.

Ken
 
Old 08-03-2019, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD
3,674 posts, read 3,036,041 times
Reputation: 5466
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
We are all damned sick and tired of these mass shootings and of congress and trump doing NOTHING! Thoughts and prayers are not working.
So before Trump ran for POTUS, the US NEVER had a mass shooting??

There is nothing the POTUS or congress or any politician can do to prevent these-nada.

Murder has been illegal for a looooooong time. Something else is at play here. A cultural issue. NOT racial- as I know it's "ebil YT" that's the cause for everything from poverty and violence, to your aunt's gout.

As a kid, I recall how easy it was to obtain a gun- hell, almost every rural family had a few. Hardware store, Sears catalog EASY.
Violence. I recall violent crime rates in American cities, being WAY WORSE than now!!
But then, most fights were with fists, and feet; maybe a knife, seldom a gun-and if so, one gun per brawl, not everyone loaded up like an Afghan warlord!!

What is it? Cultural. Internet Age. look at me. People on electronic devices, less contact with their fellow humans. All human interactions are less frequent in favor of social media, internet, less personal.
Hate is allowed to grow faster; Seems like everyone is hateful and angry-usually at people they have never met. Look at CD!! I'm part of the problem too. Humans have forgotten what it's like to interact, to disagree.
The relative anonymous internet and social media has led to many folks feeling alone, isolated, insecure, even angry and hateful.
Then add political and social divides base don identity politics. A corporate world where the very few control the many, as well as most of the $$.
It's all so cold and impersonal. The add poor parenting, games, TV movies, awful access to mental health treatment, or so many medicated people. All adding to the general feeling of being lost, hopeless, meaningless, no future or poor future.
People are scared, frustrated, angry, hurt, anxious and many want to blame someone for it-so many more lash out in wholly irrational rage, trying to gain any measure of control etc.
 
Old 08-03-2019, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Arizona
7,511 posts, read 4,355,916 times
Reputation: 6164
Quote:
Originally Posted by CALGUY View Post
This gun issues has been beat to death, and still, many like me, see a solution, but the solution will never happen, because from day one, people have interpreted the 2nd amendment so it coincides with their wants, not as the rule was meant to be.

First let me quote from the federalist papers for those who think it was "the people" who had the right to bear arms, and no one else, then I will state further , after that quote.

This statement by Hamilton serves to back up what I stated I believe the true intention of the 2nd was, to freely arm the people of a militia, not the general public.
In more understandable terms, the people(general population) could be called up to form a militia, and those people who are now a militia, would have the right to bear arms.
Again, read the paragraph, especially what he states about a "large militia".
He is talking about "people of a militia, not the general public.
The 2nd was reserved for members who would join a militia.

The second part of the amendment states "the people's right to bear arms, shall not be infringed".

Again, reading from Hamilton in the federalist papers, it is more than clear the "people" mentioned in the second sentence of the amendment were people who make up a militia.
Since you want to bring up what the founders intentions were. First let me quote from the Federalist Papers for those who don't think it was "the people" who had the right to bear arms:

Quote:
Samuel Adams: 
"Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: first, a right to life, secondly to liberty, thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can."

"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of The United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms..." 
(Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at 86-87 (Peirce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850))

John Adams: 
"Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense."

Thomas Jefferson: 
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms in his own lands."
--Thomas Jefferson, in an early draft of the Virginia constitution:

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." 
--Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. ME 16:45

"And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants" 
(Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939)

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks."

Tench Coxe: "Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state government, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people" 
(Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788)

Thomas Paine: "The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them; the weak would become a prey to the strong."

Noah Webster, 1787: 
"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."

Richard Henry Lee: "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them." 
(Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights, Walter Bennett, ed., Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republican, at 21,22,124 (Univ. of Alabama Press,1975)..)

Patrick Henry: "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined" 
(Patrick Henry, 3 J. Elliot, Debates in the Several State Conventions 45, 2d ed. Philadelphia, 1836)

"The great object is that every man be armed" and "everyone who is able may have a gun." 
(Patrick Henry, in the Virginia Convention on the ratification of the Constitution. Debates and other Proceedings of the Convention of Virginia,...taken in shorthand by David Robertson of Petersburg, at 271, 275 2d ed. Richmond, 1805. Also 3 Elliot, Debates at 386)

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" 
(Patrick Henry, 3 J. Elliot, Debates in the Several State Conventions 45, 2d ed. Philadelphia, 1836)

James Madison: "Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, and enslaved press, and a disarmed populace."

“A WELL REGULATED militia, composed of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.” (1st Annals of Congress, at 434, June 8th 1789

“As the greatest danger to liberty is from large standing armies, it is best to prevent them by an effectual provision for a good militia.” (notes of debates in the 1787 Federal Convention)

George Mason: "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."

Alexander Hamilton: "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."

Zachariah Johnson: "The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them."

Joseph Story (Supreme Court Justice): “The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic…”
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