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Old 08-03-2022, 08:14 PM
 
6,806 posts, read 4,477,592 times
Reputation: 31230

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
W

And whether you like it or not, Taiwan is part of the PRC. The UN says so, the US says so (officially, anyway), etc.
That's not what Taiwan says.

 
Old 08-03-2022, 08:24 PM
 
2,330 posts, read 962,697 times
Reputation: 1411
Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
The people of Taiwan don't agree with this. But who cares what they think, right?

Most of Taiwan wants status quo.


Most also believe Pelosi's visit was destabilizing, which was exactly her goal.


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/ugl...KYTFHEXRKF2BY/


Quote:
"Taiwan is not a playground for US politicians," Lyle Goldstein, director of Defense Priorities of Asia Engagement, told Bloomberg on Wednesday. "It is no exaggeration to say the future of humanity may depend on a pragmatic US-China relationship — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's trip to Taiwan needlessly jeopardises regional stability."
 
Old 08-03-2022, 08:37 PM
 
170 posts, read 60,030 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by g500 View Post
I watched your link, and honestly, I found it to be generally useless information. It was just opinions and surveys with minimal tangible discussion. USA, corporations, guns bad, China good was the main point. Of course the Chinese government does not want anyone to have guns. They want all the power to control, manipulate, and dominate their populace. Also China itself has tons of corporations and billionaire elites.

China holds no elections. How can you be considered a democracy without having any elections? China is a “meritocracy” per the video, and yet it fails to explain how so. Are examinations administered? How is performance evaluated? Are we to believe that Xi Jinping is the smartest and/or most capable leader then? How? Based on what evidence, exactly? China’s government is more of an autocracy, steeped in nepotism and barbarism. Where the most brutal ardent party-line members rule with impunity. If you look at China’s history, the country did not escape the brutal Dynasties/Kingdoms era, which lasted thousands of years. Their system of government today is merely another iteration of Dynasty.

China today resembles a real-life version of the movie 1984 (North Korea is actually the closest version). The CCP controls and monitors their citizens every move - there is no free speech, no free press, no free assembly. Their laws are based on strict Party Values / Doctrine. The internet and communications in China are also heavily restricted and controlled by “The Great Firewall”. Most of the outside internet/websites are completely blocked or banned inside China. YouTube, Twitter, Facebook are blocked. Their government severely punishes any vices harshly - in fact now they don’t really want people to play videogames even. The Chinese government knows what is best for its citizens!(sarcasm)

The Chinese government offers minimal to zero transparency. They falsify data. It is operating indoctrination/prison camps in XinJiang. The CCP executes thousands of prisoners per year (no details provided), it violently annexed Hong Kong. Their military threatens Taiwan.

China is not behaving like a democracy. It is behaving like an imperialist autocracy. Its government is held up by threats. Stand on a street corner in Beijing and say what I just said in Chinese. What would happen? You might be taken away. Yet I can criticize the USA government and nothing will happen (unless I make threats, which are not free speech, and rightly so).

Now, as for the debate about Taiwan. China has never been in control of the island of Taiwan. Therefore, it should not legally be their territory. Taiwan does not want to be part of China despite what official UN or US policy dictates.

The Chinese people are incredibly disciplined, intelligent, and industrious. I truly wish them the best and brightest future of all.

Anyway, the BIG difference is that we (the USA) have far more personal freedoms available to us than what the Chinese government allows its citizens. Freedom is costly but priceless.
typically local CCP politician move up base on central gov. criterias from multiple areas. for example province x or town x may have economy growth+jobs + environment etc goals, other area might have economly+job+security (aka tibet/xinjian) etc etc goals. so it has that sense of meritocracy, because they move up base on the performance of local official govern the respect area. So its more like corporation where employee has to perform to move up. Xi start as pig farmer to president, so he has the exp/knowledge/cunning etc to make into that position.

as for freedom, most chinese or immigrant move to US/EU NOT because the freedom, but because quality of life, its the same reason Mexican/SAmericans move to US illegally. If chinese make more $$ in china than in US, they may stay in china instead.

also most chinese dont care about criticize government, they care more about their everyday life such as job/salary/personal life/entertainment etc. given the choice of no jobs, no ability to feed the family, no home, but can bashing the government vs NOT criticize CCP but has stable jobs, stable economy etc ill bet almost all chinese choose the latter.

as for taiwan, if you refer to PRC, then yes PRC never had control over taiwan, however there is 92 consensus, might want to look it up. Qing/Ming did control taiwan, but they are chinese dynasty, i think PRC is base of Qing and pre-civil war map of ROC (aka taiwan)

finally hundreds millions chinese visit over sea for the past few decades. hundreds thousands chinese student study oversea each year, yet we haven't seen another tiannmen square event. Freedom of speech is nice, but it can't substitute food/shelter/security, thats what CCP provide to chinese along with promising of prosperity/jobs/better life etc. during trump era 70 % of american think economy is their #1 concern
 
Old 08-03-2022, 08:41 PM
 
170 posts, read 60,030 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javacoffee View Post
That's not what Taiwan says.
if eastern ukraine or crimea said they are independent, its doesnt mean they are truly independent since except russia, no country said they are independent
 
Old 08-03-2022, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
16,560 posts, read 10,639,616 times
Reputation: 36576
Quote:
"Taiwan is not a playground for US politicians," Lyle Goldstein, director of Defense Priorities of Asia Engagement, told Bloomberg on Wednesday. "It is no exaggeration to say the future of humanity may depend on a pragmatic US-China relationship — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's trip to Taiwan needlessly jeopardises regional stability."
"Pragmatic relationship." "Jeopardizes regional stability." In other words, "Don't dare do anything that might get China upset. Keep on walking on eggshells around them." I say, pound sand. We are the United States of America and it's high time we start acting like it, and stop worrying so much about hurting China's delicate, sensitive feelings.
 
Old 08-03-2022, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
9,471 posts, read 10,810,468 times
Reputation: 15980
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamban View Post
I detest Nancy Pelosi.

But I detest the gall of China to dictate to us who and who should not visit Taiwan. We should send her to see what they can do. Let us see if they truly want to invade Taiwan and suffer heavy losses. Taiwan is no pushover like Ukraine.
This is how I feel too. Pelosi is grandstanding and making trouble. However China has NO SAY in who we send to Taiwan and when. China is an economic bully, a government that abuses its own citizens and a government that bares at least some responsibility for the coronavirus nightmare the entire world has endured. I could care less what they think. If they wish to start a war over something trivial like this then I say let them try. They will lose.
 
Old 08-03-2022, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Western PA
10,872 posts, read 4,546,402 times
Reputation: 6726
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesclues5 View Post
Most of Taiwan wants status quo.


Most also believe Pelosi's visit was destabilizing, which was exactly her goal.


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/ugl...KYTFHEXRKF2BY/


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so let me get this straight....a poll of 7500 NZ paper readers who most likely do not know where taiwan is and whose own country is co-run and majority owned by the CCP speak for the actual taiwanese who save a few protesters calling her an ugly witch approved?


well thats just spiffy.
 
Old 08-03-2022, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,827 posts, read 24,917,786 times
Reputation: 28528
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetireinPA View Post
so let me get this straight....a poll of 7500 NZ paper readers who most likely do not know where taiwan is and whose own country is co-run and majority owned by the CCP speak for the actual taiwanese who save a few protesters calling her an ugly witch approved?


well thats just spiffy.

Since when have Americans ever been good at pointing out the locations of the countries we meddle in on a map??? Most Americans can't find Vietnam on the map, and have no idea that it is close to being as long as the USA (north to south). Our willful ignorance of geopolitics is a big part of what makes this country so impactful and influential on the global stage. Because of our lack of interest, care and concern for geopolitical matters, we essentially give the government a blank check to go around the world and get into all sorts of mischief on our behalf. How many Americans today can even find Ukraine on the map... Yet we are giving them billions and depleting our stash of military weapons for them.
 
Old 08-04-2022, 02:06 AM
 
5,946 posts, read 2,763,866 times
Reputation: 3449
China = Empty Threats?

Didn't their state run media threaten certain things that didn't actually happen?
 
Old 08-04-2022, 04:57 AM
 
6,806 posts, read 4,477,592 times
Reputation: 31230
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesclues5 View Post
Yup, typical American arrogance with no regard for diplomacy.
And you wonder why we are so hated by the rest of the world. And no, it’s not because of our wealth, or freedom.
You would prefer we obey China's command? Is that the diplomacy you expect from us? Americans are "arrogant" because we don't quiver and shake when the bully utters his threats against us?

Here's a news flash. Real Americans don't cower. We don't whimper and apologize in the hopes of appeasing the big, scary communists and other foreign bullies of the world. We don't hide in the shadows while the big guys pick on the smaller guys.

There's an element of weakness trying to overtake America. That weakness isn't coming from the right. It comes from the left. Leftists are the first to back down. They demand that the rest of us back down as well. They call us racists, haters and bigots when we refuse to obey and do things their way. The leftists also call us arrogant and phobic for not adhering to and spreading their twisted ideals to our children.

Leftists have all types of demeaning labels for Americans of strength, decency and honor,... for Americans who believe in God... for Americans who aren't afraid to fight and die for our country... for Americans who rush to the aid of the weaker country that needs help.

Leftists don't have labels for foreign terrorists who kill Americans, do they?
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