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Location: Charlotte,NC, US, North America, Earth, Alpha Quadrant,Milky Way Galaxy
3,770 posts, read 7,548,693 times
Reputation: 2118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanhawk
Thank you. I wasn't going to post anymore to this thread as I felt it got hijacked by a bunch of people displaying a lot of insufferable self righteousness toward a man who while not perfect was a defender of this country against it's biggest enemy of the latter half of the 20th century, communism.
These people are outraged by wrongful positions taken by this man 40 to 50 years ago and the fact he didn't redeem himself by becoming a full fledged supporter of affirmative action. That's the real sin to many of them. Not what he said in the 1960s, but the fact that later on he opposed racial quotas and set asides in hiring and college admissions. The only way to redeem himself was to become like George Wallace and support race quotas. Jesse Helms wisely chose not to do this. Race quotas are wrong, period. It is simply replacing one kind of government racism, segregation, with another, quotas.
One final observation about the hate filled posters. These people who are so outraged about Helm's racism will go into a voting booth in November and vote for a man who chose to belong to and regularly attend an explicitly racist church that taught "black liberation theology" and who's preacher constantly whipped his congregation into a frenzy with negative rants about greedy white supremacists controlling America. This politician also crudely characterized his white grandmother as a "typical white person" for supposedly stereotypical statements about a black man she meant on a street. I wouldn't say Obama should be totally judged by these acts but for crying out loud, if they can so easily forgive him in 2008 and vote for him, they can forgive the Helms statements of 40 years ago.
I agree, this tribute thread became something a bit more than a tribute. However I would have to disagree with you. Jesse's feelings about black people are not restricted to the 1950s. Jesse's comments and his feelings about black people have not changed, unlike Wallace. Yes it's one thing to say that quotas are wrong, and that there should be equal access for *all* Americans, he's never ever said that. He never ever stated that there should be equal access for all regardless of race, gender, age, etc. We are not talking about comments he made 50 years ago, but comments and positions he's consistently held until the day he died. He's quoted as saying that he'd make Carol Mosley Braun cry by singing dixie (among other things) that wasn't 1950, that was the early 1990s. Helms never ever said racism, jim crow, or any of the old south institutions was wrong. He talked about eliminating quotas and all that but he simply meant maintain a return to old south institutions. I'm willing to take the entirety of a man's life into account and consider it in full context, what he's done and not cherry-pick one or two points. I'll give Jesse credit for fighting communism, being a staunch conservative, but I'm not going to overlook his position on Americans who are black.
That is the problem you're seeing played out here. Also, bringing up Obama is a pretty weak deflection- deal with Jesse and his total record and not introduce someone that's unrelated to the thread.
against communism? havent the U.S been dealing with communism china and saudi arabia? i mean a nationcant clarly be against communism but deal with it economically?
There are so many misconceptions on this thread that I would not even know where to start. Like the person so brought up everything bad that had ever happened to slaves and attributed it to my ancestors.
When I graduated high school, I had never met a black person. I doubt many of my ancestors had either. So to state that we have done all the things in the past that other white Southerners have done is racism. That is what racism is: saying that because a person is of that race they are this or that. I admire the young man that states he is black and he works for a living. I live around a lot of black people who do the same. They don't need any quotas. These are the type blacks that Jesse Helms grew up around too. Jesse Helms is not responsible for all the things every white person has done in the past either.
When are the Northern posters on here ever going to take the responsibility for the fact that Northern ships were the ones bringing the slaves here in the first place. Maybe we should think that everybody in New York did that too.
We are all individuals and should not need quotas to live our lives. Each person is free to make their own lives and their lives will be according to God's grace and what they make of it. According to NC history, the slaves led better lives than my ancestors in the mountains. I don't see anybody giving us any quotas. We have made it on our own and everybody I know is doing just fine.
Last edited by NCN; 07-15-2008 at 09:20 AM..
Reason: Luckily I found I spelled something wrong before someone else did. I like it when it happens that way. LOL
Location: Charlotte,NC, US, North America, Earth, Alpha Quadrant,Milky Way Galaxy
3,770 posts, read 7,548,693 times
Reputation: 2118
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN
There are so many misconceptions on this thread that I would not even know where to start. Like the person so brought up everything bad that had ever happened to slaves and attributed it to my ancestors.
When I graduated high school, I had never met a black person. I doubt many of my ancestors had either. So to state that we have done all the things in the past that other white Southerners have done is the highth of racism. That is what racism is: saying that because a person is of that race they are this or that. I admire the young man that states he is black and he works for a living. I live around a lot of black people who do the same. They don't need any quotas. These are the type blacks that Jesse Helms grew up around too. Jesse Helms is not responsible for all the things every white person has done in the past either.
When are the Northern posters on here ever going to take the responsibility for the fact that Northern ships were the ones bringing the slaves here in the first place. Maybe we should think that everybody in New York did that too.
We are all individuals and should not need quotas to live our lives. Each person is free to make their own lives and their lives will be according to God's grace and what they make of it. According to NC history, the slaves led better lives than my ancestors in the mountains. I don't see anybody giving us any quotas. We have made it on our own and everybody I know is doing just fine.
Jesse Helms grew up in Jim Crow south and clearly has no problem with that institution. If someone accused you of being racist or anyone in your family for being racist, that's very wrong and of course your family had nothing to do with slavery as many southern families had no stake in it. The issue on slavery was never about what anyone one family did or didn't do, it was the institution that supported it and flourished as a result of it. You didn't have to be racist or a slave owner, the system took care of all that for you.
I would simply like to hear anyone who is pro Jesse Helms explicitly explain away just one point, I mentioned he is on record of wanting to make Braun cry, and sang/whistled Dixie in her presence on occasion. Just tell me Jesse in any formal setting actually said institutional segregation was wrong (and no saying affirmative action is wrong isn't the same thing). I'll give you credit for that if you can point me to it.
Jesse Helms grew up in Jim Crow south and clearly has no problem with that institution. If someone accused you of being racist or anyone in your family for being racist, that's very wrong and of course your family had nothing to do with slavery as many southern families had no stake in it. The issue on slavery was never about what anyone one family did or didn't do, it was the institution that supported it and flourished as a result of it. You didn't have to be racist or a slave owner, the system took care of all that for you.
I would simply like to hear anyone who is pro Jesse Helms explicitly explain away just one point, I mentioned he is on record of wanting to make Braun cry, and sang/whistled Dixie in her presence on occasion. Just tell me Jesse in any formal setting actually said institutional segregation was wrong (and no saying affirmative action is wrong isn't the same thing). I'll give you credit for that if you can point me to it.
I voted for Jesse Helms many times and it has nothing to do with any racism. When you vote for a person you have to take into account the whole person and not just one thing about that person. I voted for him because I thought he would make a good senator and I think he did make a good senator. Love doesn't notice when someone else does it wrong. I am sure he did lots of wrong things, but he also did a lot of right things and I thought that is what this thread is about. It was humorous to me that another poster mentioned a couple of people who were American Patriot's that actually owned slaves.
I will state one more time that North Carolina is a better place because Jesse Helms was our senator for 30 years. So attack me if you want to, although personal attacks are supposed to be against the rules. It is really low class when one starts attacking a person who can't defend themselves.
As for bringing up Obama, how can one not see the contrast in these two. As much as some of you love to hate him, he didn't make excuses or try to say anything different because of your opinion. What you saw was what you got. Do you think Obama would ever make it in the senate for 30 years. LOL
Robert Byrd saw the EVIL of his ways and changed. As did George Wallace. Better late to the party than never. Helms is now enjoying life with Satan where he will be forever.
Im not defending Helms because really I don't know the truth about him,I don't know him.
But...........I guarantee you that if Byrd had been a Republican the Democrats wouldn't be making excuses that he saw the light,they would say once a racist always a racist.
So why do the Dems spout off about Bush once being a alchoholic?He cleaned himself up so why won't Dems champion Bush for see ing the light and overcoming?
Im not defending Helms because really I don't know the truth about him,I don't know him.
But...........I guarantee you that if Byrd had been a Republican the Democrats wouldn't be making excuses that he saw the light,they would say once a racist always a racist.
So why do the Dems spout off about Bush once being a alchoholic?He cleaned himself up so why won't Dems champion Bush for see ing the light and overcoming?
they're doing the same thing to obama. so......its all political game. i guess the past is suppose to be a factor of today.
but as i said before about helms to byrd is that helms died a devout racist byrd for the most part isnt and if so he'll get whats coming to him.
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