Hate crimes: Gays vandalize SF Castro church! (Iraq, parties, marriages)

[Pug Life]

Originally Posted by msconnie73

They are free to give into their desires as God gives us all free will. If they want to legalize their union, then they can obtain a civil union. Marriage = union between a man and woman.

So why aren't you happy with just having a Union?

A marriage isn't some holy institution that's never been changed, as that's basically why the protestant religion was founded in the first place. Marriage used to be between a man and a 12 year old girl, or a man and several wives: ( "7: And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; 8: And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things" (2 Sam. 12).)

What this really about is your homophobic feelings. You are a homophobe, you are afraid of "them" and how "they" will somehow affect your marriage. I ask you ONCE AGAIN (for about the 10th time) WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE TO YOU IF TWO MEN GET MARRIED NOWHERE NEAR WHERE YOU LIVE?

[Pug Life]

Originally Posted by msconnie73

Spoken like a true ignorant liberal.

Except I'm a libertarian...
And ignorance is the LAST thing you could say that defines me. I'm more highly educated and well traveled than you will ever be. I've experienced far more than you ever will and have known far more people than you could ever know. Religion by definition is ignorance, because you use a book that pre-dates modern science to explain the unknown, even though it is known to anyone who reads more than that one book. Religion is used to deny, among other things, the age of the earth, Dinosaurs, evolution, the solar-centric universe, homosexuality as a natural occurence in man, pretty much all rational thought...
Being a devout conservative Christian means only one thing, you're too ignorant to realize how ignorant you are. You follow a book, written by men, as written by god. You call Judas a traitor, when Judas is the only reason Christianity even exists (had he not sold Jesus out, there would not have been a crucifixion/martyr). You call Christianity peaceful when it has caused the murder of millions of people.

But ignorance is bliss, you can keep telling yourself that you know more than those who actually get their opinions from somewhere other than the church, but it wont make it true. I know a lot more about gays because I have always had gay people in my life, as teachers, as coworkers, as my boss, as my friends and as a resident of "liberal" cities like New Orleans, San Diego (not liberal), and San Francisco. I know it's not a choice because I saw my best friend struggle with it, trying to be straight. So don't call me ignorant when you are clearly the one who needs to learn more.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by leftydan6

So why aren't you happy with just having a Union?

A marriage isn't some holy institution that's never been changed, as that's basically why the protestant religion was founded in the first place. Marriage used to be between a man and a 12 year old girl, or a man and several wives: ( "7: And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; 8: And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things" (2 Sam. 12).)

What this really about is your homophobic feelings. You are a homophobe, you are afraid of "them" and how "they" will somehow affect your marriage. I ask you ONCE AGAIN (for about the 10th time) WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE TO YOU IF TWO MEN GET MARRIED NOWHERE NEAR WHERE YOU LIVE?

How does name calling solve anything? Disagreeing with homosexuality does not equal being afraid of homosexuals. I've even had a relative who was gay before he passed away from AIDS. Despite the relationship choices he made, I still loved and accepted him as the sweet person he was. Marriage is a sacred union that has already suffered disasterous consequences decades after people fought for the right to divorce. Now marriage is no longer "til death do you apart" but it is "until we grow tired of each other." Now the pro-gay lobby want to further undermine marriage and make it between two consenting adults instead of a sacred union between a man and woman. How much more weakening of marriage do we need in our society? Our kids are suffering because marriage is no longer about procreation and establishing a nurturing environment to raise the next generation - It is now about satisfying the selfish needs of adults. But lets not stop there, lets legalize polygamy or even marriage between a human and animal.

[Ceist]

Originally Posted by msconnie73

But this does not justify changing the definition of marriage. If you choose to have an alternate type of relationship that is outside of the norm, then civil unions are the answer for those wishing to legalize those alternative relationships.

I know this is going off topic but...there are all sorts of marriages that are already outside the "norm".

How is a 95 year old man in a wheelchair marrying a 16 year old girl closer to the "norm" than two women of the same sex in their 30's raising children? Other than that the first "relationship" is between two people of the opposite sex.

How is serial rapist in prison marrying a prostitute so he can have conjugal rights, closer to the "norm" than two law abiding, gainfully employed, mortgage paying men in a 20 year loving committed relationship?
Other that the first "relationship" is between two people of the opposite sex.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by msconnie73

How does name calling solve anything? Disagreeing with homosexuality does not equal being afraid of homosexuals. I've even had a relative who was gay before he passed away from AIDS. Despite the relationship choices he made, I still loved and accepted him as the sweet person he was. Marriage is a sacred union that has already suffered disasterous consequences decades after people fought for the right to divorce. Now marriage is no longer "til death do you apart" but it is "until we grow tired of each other." Now the pro-gay lobby want to further undermine marriage and make it between two consenting adults instead of a sacred union between a man and woman. How much more weakening of marriage do we need in our society? Our kids are suffering because marriage is no longer about procreation and establishing a nurturing environment to raise the next generation - It is now about satisfying the selfish needs of adults. But lets not stop there, lets legalize polygamy or even marriage between a human and animal.

Ahhhh, there it is... the famous slippery-slope "then people will marry dogs and multiple partners" argument. Oy vey. Personally, I have no issue with polygamy if all parties are consenting - but until an animal can sign a marriage contract and consent to the acts, your argument is desperate and ridiculous.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by msconnie73

Spoken like a true ignorant liberal.

He's neither a "liberal" nor ignorant... and if you speak to my brother like that again, we'll have problems. But Dan, you also need to stop getting so personal, okay?

[Theliberalvoice]

Originally Posted by msconnie73

How does name calling solve anything? Disagreeing with homosexuality does not equal being afraid of homosexuals. I've even had a relative who was gay before he passed away from AIDS. Despite the relationship choices he made, I still loved and accepted him as the sweet person he was. Marriage is a sacred union that has already suffered disasterous consequences decades after people fought for the right to divorce. Now marriage is no longer "til death do you apart" but it is "until we grow tired of each other." Now the pro-gay lobby want to further undermine marriage and make it between two consenting adults instead of a sacred union between a man and woman. How much more weakening of marriage do we need in our society? Our kids are suffering because marriage is no longer about procreation and establishing a nurturing environment to raise the next generation - It is now about satisfying the selfish needs of adults. But lets not stop there, lets legalize polygamy or even marriage between a human and animal.

Why are people who are against gay marriage say "Omg..it will lead to polygamy or marriage between a human and animal."

People said the same about interracial marriage. Nothing like that happened.

People who are against gay marriage are against for mainly religious reasons. I do not think it is right to deny gays their rights because of how you feel.

Marriage is not regarded as sacred anymore and has been re-defined time and again. You said so yourself. Marriage is now about satisfying adult desires. So it is not sacred anymore. It is not just about being selfish. So then why does it bother if you gays get married?

Seriously. I fail to understand this. Just like the typical ignorant Republican.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by msconnie73

I apologize if I've hurt anyone but I have the rights to my beliefs and opinions which is grounded in my faith. I have been enduring years of ridicule for following my Christian beliefs in liberal California but I ain't going to force others to accept me. I have to accept MYSELF and be content with WHO I AM. I am not going to ask our government to change the 1st amendment of free speech just so I can avoid hearing criticisms about my faith.

Who is trying to suppress free speech? Nobody has told you to shut up, have they? If you can't handle a healthy debate or challenge of your beliefs, this probably isn't the right forum for you! And while being ridiculed for your faith isn't cool, that doesn't compare to the rights ACTUALLY being taken from gays. Have you had anyone try to take your right to practice religion, or your right to marry whom you love? If not, then don't try to compare your experiences to those of the gay community.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by leftydan6

Except I'm a libertarian...
And ignorance is the LAST thing you could say that defines me. I'm more highly educated and well traveled than you will ever be. I've experienced far more than you ever will and have known far more people than you could ever know. Religion by definition is ignorance, because you use a book that pre-dates modern science to explain the unknown, even though it is known to anyone who reads more than that one book. Religion is used to deny, among other things, the age of the earth, Dinosaurs, evolution, the solar-centric universe, homosexuality as a natural occurence in man, pretty much all rational thought...
Being a devout conservative Christian means only one thing, you're too ignorant to realize how ignorant you are. You follow a book, written by men, as written by god. You call Judas a traitor, when Judas is the only reason Christianity even exists (had he not sold Jesus out, there would not have been a crucifixion/martyr). You call Christianity peaceful when it has caused the murder of millions of people.

But ignorance is bliss, you can keep telling yourself that you know more than those who actually get their opinions from somewhere other than the church, but it wont make it true. I know a lot more about gays because I have always had gay people in my life, as teachers, as coworkers, as my boss, as my friends and as a resident of "liberal" cities like New Orleans, San Diego (not liberal), and San Francisco. I know it's not a choice because I saw my best friend struggle with it, trying to be straight. So don't call me ignorant when you are clearly the one who needs to learn more.

I'm very well educated myself and was educated in two liberal universities in California so ignorance is something I'm not. How does your education give you the moral superiority to call Christians ignorant, especially as a majority of the US believes in GOD? You will find out one day just how far your "educated" mind will get you without God. The prophesies in the Bible have for the most part came true already so how can a book written by mere men accurately guess what will take place thousands of years into the future. The only prophesies that haven't came true are those pertaining to the end times but boy are we heading in that direction. Go ahead, place all of your trust in human science which has never been able to scientifically disproven God's existence. The only science that people have been able to show me about homosexuality relates to the acts of animals. Since animals engage in cannibalism and incest, I don't think we should be getting our moral cues from them by the way.

[Pug Life]

Originally Posted by msconnie73

How does name calling solve anything? Disagreeing with homosexuality does not equal being afraid of homosexuals. I've even had a relative who was gay before he passed away from AIDS. Despite the relationship choices he made, I still loved and accepted him as the sweet person he was. Marriage is a sacred union that has already suffered disasterous consequences decades after people fought for the right to divorce. Now marriage is no longer "til death do you apart" but it is "until we grow tired of each other." Now the pro-gay lobby want to further undermine marriage and make it between two consenting adults instead of a sacred union between a man and woman. How much more weakening of marriage do we need in our society? Our kids are suffering because marriage is no longer about procreation and establishing a nurturing environment to raise the next generation - It is now about satisfying the selfish needs of adults. But lets not stop there, lets legalize polygamy or even marriage between a human and animal.

That is what Anita Bryant said in the 70s and that's what you're saying now. That backwards view equates gays to people who practice beastiality and only a homophobe would EVER say anything like that. You keep denying it, but your one friend would probably hate you if they saw what you wrote about gay. You basically blame them for their own death if you think that being gay is a choice. You say that being gay is selfish. You really have no idea how offensive you are, do you?

When do you think marriage was changed to allow divorce? LONG before you were born...Henry the 8th is famous for his divorce and the entire protestant church is based on the fact that he had a divorce.

And what difference does the sexual makeup of parents matter? Jeffrey Dahmer had a married couple as his parents and he ended up being a serial killer. Barack Obama came from a single mother and became President of the United States. Good parents are simply that, good parents. And many gay men are far more nurturing and caring than any straight man could ever be. My best teacher in elementary school was gay, and only 1 in 30 boys from that class grew up to be gay.