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Of course, that was all part of the Great Obama Conspiracy......so was the 1962 birth announcement in the Honolulu papers......
Why? Because it's not relevant to anything, maybe?
Relevant? Relevancy is what I see when I see that all those records were sealed before the campaign began. Why were they all sealed? Why can't we even see papers he wrote at Harvard and the other colleges? Surely there is something he doesn't want us to know about.
As I told people some time ago, my college was almost proud of my MS paper. They had several hard back copies in the library for years. Anyone who wanted to see a copy could have with nothing but a simple request. I can't even see his Master's Thesis from Columbia. Why is that?
We know some things about the papers Michelle wrote in college but sure as hell not about his papers.
Relevant? Relevancy is what I see when I see that all those records were sealed before the campaign began. Why were they all sealed? Why can't we even see papers he wrote at Harvard and the other colleges? Surely there is something he doesn't want us to know about.
As I told people some time ago, my college was almost proud of my MS paper. They had several hard back copies in the library for years. Anyone who wanted to see a copy could have with nothing but a simple request. I can't even see his Master's Thesis from Columbia. Why is that?
We know some things about the papers Michelle wrote in college but sure as hell not about his papers.
Maybe he doesn't want folks like yourself twisting his words like they did Michelle's.................
No. But nobody is asking him to respond to an "asinine conspiracy theory".
Seems quite apt. How many people must be in on this, these days?
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Since he ran for, and became, POTUS he must comply with federal law in proving that he/she is indeed a US-born citizen.
Interestingly, there's a group of people tasked with actually deciding who gets to be President - it's called the Electoral College. Obama's natural-born citizen status was demonstrated to their satisfaction, and he was duly elected, then sworn in. Which means you have to go the impeachment route, and good luck with that.
If somebody had sued before the election, the COLB is prima facie evidence - it would be on the plaintiffs to prove their case, not for Obama to prove his.
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Thus far, he has not. My question is why not? What is he afraid of?
Actually, he has. Let me explain: Hawaiian authorities keep records. When needed, they'll issue documents certifying (hence "certificate") what is in the records. The documents themselves are meaningless. It's what in the records that count. When the issuing authorities (that is, the state of Hawaii) confirm the documents are kosher, then that's it. There's no higher authority.
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About all his document proves is that he was born...alive...somewhere.
Yup. In Hawaii.
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Originally Posted by BudinAk
No long form? Then why do they mention BOTH long and short forms here:
The hospital issues a long form. Long form gets lost. Authorities issue short form when asked for copy.
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Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry
The cost to defend the allegations must be fairly high. I've heard from .5 - 1 million. Who pays for that?
Lately, the plaintiffs do. The courts are getting tired of the shenanigans. And I wouldn't trust what "you've heard".
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Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry
Didn't McCain have to go through Senate hearings?
No, not at all. The Senate passed a resolution (bipartisan) to cut through the issue. (Incidentally, some whackjobs sued to get hold of McCain's birth certificate and were denied.)
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Originally Posted by roysoldboy
I must be a birther since I want to see proof that the man was born in Hawaii.
The proof is there. A COLB is considered prima facie evidence in court. Even if any Birther were to be granted a trial, ever, they'd still have to prove that the COLB was false, not the other way around.
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Originally Posted by roysoldboy
You guys keep saying that there is no long form birth certificate issued in Hawaii anymore. I have a friend who lives in Hawaii now whose wife is younger than Oba mao and she has one of those "Long form certificates". Also, all her children (5) have them and a couple of them have children and all of them have the long forms.
And if she lost those and contacted Hawaii for a certified copy, she'd get the COLB.
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Hey, I don't think he was born in Kenya but would like to have some proof of where he was born other than the Certification of Live Birth which Hawaii issues to any children born outside their boundary as long as they have one Hawaiian parent and the application is made no more than a year after the birth.
Except they don't put Hawaii as the birthplace. Good theory, otherwise.
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Originally Posted by roysoldboy
In case he hasn't lost the passport he traveled to Pakistan for a year during which time the US didn't allow its citizens to go there it would make a believer out of me as long as he got it from the State Department of the US. I don't think he managed to go there with a passport from the US.
We all know those people were born in the US and there was no reason for them to prove anything. I don't remember anyone calling for Bush's certificate but many have asked for Obama's. Also, all those people you name have living parents to get information from but Oba mao has no parents and he never allowed anyone close to his grandmother who died handily before the election.
There is just too much secrecy involved here. The man showed up too all of a sudden for me and there is just so little history about him. How about him releasing his enrollment papers from Occidental College. That would handle it for me but he doesn't intend to release anything like that. Why?
What secrecy is there?? You want him to make a document public that no other President (or anyone running for it) has had to make public before. As far as those who I named, yes Palin and Bush had living parents at the time (which means nothing anyway), but Reagan didn't (his dad died in the 40's and his mother in 1962)
The COLB has been released which states Hawaii as where he was born (which it would not state if he wasn't born there). So why exactly should Obama have to make public something no other Presidential candidate ever had to make public? Including those candidates with parents who were long dead??
Lou Dobb's called out Obama about his BC...
Why not just show everyone the paper where his was born.
At this point i question now he was born in a different country like Indonesia.
when they say "long form" the are talking about the original birth record. it's just semantics. when you say "long form" you are talking about the obsolete certificate of live birth. they also say in that link that the state health department does not offer an option to request a "long form". the link i provided to hawaii's own website states that they no longer issue certificates of live birth (the actual long form), only certifications. the only other thing that exists is the original record created by the hospital, which can only be photocopied. it's not like the health department is going to be sending irreplaceable original records to anyone, even the president.
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Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry
gotcha, "vital record" that Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health has verfied.
You bring up another thing that puzzles me. The cost to defend the allegations must be fairly high. I've heard from .5 - 1 million. Who pays for that? That's alot of money especially when it can't lead to the discovery of an unrelated crime.
the people claiming that obama has spent that amount of money on birther lawsuits are just taking the amount of money he's spent on legal fees since his campaign began and claiming that all of that money was spent on those particular lawsuits. how much do you think it actually costs to have a lawyer file a motion to dismiss? that's all that's needed to be done, maybe 50 times or so. and most of the motions were near identical, and granted right away.
and in any case, releasing a photocopy of the original record is not going to shut the birthers up. do you seriously think they'd accept a photocopy as authentic? half of them already say the birth certificate he released is a forgery, and some are saying that he's already working on forging an original birth record and that it's taking so long because it's being "aged" (in a museum in canada!?). one of the defining characteristics of a conspiracy theorist is that any evidence that counters the theory is just seen as further proof of the conspiracy.
one further consideration about releasing a copy of the original record is that each bit of information the birthers have gotten has resulted in near or actual harassment of any connected person they can find. the hawaii department of health has had to dedicate a staff member just to dealing with birther issues and field all the calls and e-mails. wild claims have been made about the head of that department and the spokeswoman who answers the questions received. releasing the long form would serve no purpose (his birthplace is already proven and the birthers are not going to accept anything he offers) and would give the birthers more names to harass. anyone named on that certificate, their surviving families, anyone with the same or similar name, will be researched and defamed on the web and swamped with phone calls by hordes of conspiracy theorists.
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Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry
I believe in my rights and wouldn't normally let a cop search my car if he asked. But if I needed to be somewhere right away and in order to expedite things, I'd consent to a search. I think you should pick your battles.
this is not like a policeman asking to search your car - this is like a policeman asking you for id, you turning over your driver's license, and some random bystander asking to see your id too. you hand them your license (which you didn't have to do in the first place) and they say "i don't accept that id as proof of your identity, i won't accept that you are who you say you are until you produce a passport". any reasonable person would have accepted your driver's license. should you go home and get your passport just to satisfy this person who is either crazy, doesn't understand what proper id is, or has some kind of grudge against you?
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Originally Posted by BudinAk
The so-called Obama "birth certificate" is actually not a birth certificate. It is a "Certification of Live Birth". (not a Certificate of Live Birth) (Hawaii had both...at the same time...)
yeah, they HAD both at the same time. as of a few years ago (i think since 2003) they only release certifications. this has been stated by the department of health and also in the department of homelands application i linked to earlier in the thread.
the certification says right on it that it's prima facie evidence in court. that means it proves place of birth unless evidence is produced to the contrary. the birthers have produced exactly 0 credible evidence that he was not born in honolulu as his birth certificate states.
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Originally Posted by roysoldboy
Bud, I keep wanting to ask how those Hawaiian officials had the right to view that document since Oba mao sealed it long before they said they had seen it. It is supposed to be locked away from any and all eyes.
obama's birth certificate is not sealed. no one can look at it except state officials with the proper clearance, obama himself, and his family. that is not an exceptional thing nor is it a sealed record - it is the normal state of any birth certificate in hawaii and probably anywhere else. birthers think the record is sealed because *their* requests for it have been denied. but they would get the same denial if they requested anyone's birth certificate besides their own and their family's.
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Originally Posted by roysoldboy
I just can't believe it is there since he won't show it. Also, I look at the Fact Check name and see the Annenberg family name. That family wasn't the most truthful group in Chicago politics and Oba mao was in with them while he worked for them. Check this out as I am sure none of our lefty friends will.
and who are the crazy lefties at the hawaiian department of homelands, which clearly states that a certification of live birth is a legitimate birth certificate, and is now the only kind of birth certificate hawaii releases? did the hawaiians you know receive their birth certificates after 2003?
and i noticed you pulled out the old "hawaii issues birth certificates to foreign born people" thing. yes, they do. but they don't falsify the birthplaces on those certificates. if obama was born in mombassa then his birth certificate (and yes, his certification of live birth) would say mombassa.
Lou Dobb's called out Obama about his BC...
Why not just show everyone the paper where his was born.
At this point i question now he was born in a different country like Indonesia.
ah yes, great theory.
a very pregnant american 18 year old goes to indonesia to give birth.
that's even better than the pregnant 18 year old going to kenya to give birth. at least she had some kind of connection to kenya at the time, as ridiculous as it is to imply that a pregnant woman in 1961 would visit kenya just to give birth and then return to the united states within days in a time when pregnant women couldn't be vaccinated, late term pregnant women couldn't fly, and women stayed in the hospital for a week or more after giving birth.
why indonesia? because the man she married when obama was 5 (and who she met in honolulu) was indonesian? yeah, makes a lot of sense.
Relevant? Relevancy is what I see when I see that all those records were sealed before the campaign began. Why were they all sealed? Why can't we even see papers he wrote at Harvard and the other colleges? Surely there is something he doesn't want us to know about.
As I told people some time ago, my college was almost proud of my MS paper. They had several hard back copies in the library for years. Anyone who wanted to see a copy could have with nothing but a simple request. I can't even see his Master's Thesis from Columbia. Why is that?
We know some things about the papers Michelle wrote in college but sure as hell not about his papers.
No records of Obama's were "sealed". No one cannot go to your school and get a copy of your transcript, your application (assuming they kept it), etc. Nor can anyone go to mine and get that stuff. I've had to order many transcripts over the years, and I always have to sign a written authorization. These are NOT public records that Obama had "sealed".
Obama did not get a master's from Columbia; he got a bachelors' degree.
Regarding a "hospital" birth certificates:
Hospitals do not create birth certificates. They fill out the state forms and have the mother sign them, then send them to the local health department. The HD then "records" the birth (hence the postion "clerk and recorder" in local county governments).
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