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Old 10-13-2009, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,273,270 times
Reputation: 4937

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Among prisoners carrying a firearm during their crime, .......

What the heck are you blabbing about Junior?

Please show these specific stats where prisoners carry firearms and commit crimes?????
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,659,569 times
Reputation: 14806
I read the actual text, and there are other things in it which I would not support in my state, so this will conclude it for me. No more support. I think the basic idea and intent was good, but they should have left it at that, but of course they had to go ahead and add other unnecessary things to it.
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,659,569 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
What the heck are you blabbing about Junior?

Please show these specific stats where prisoners carry firearms and commit crimes?????
DOJ statistics. They carried them while they committed the crimes JUNIOR!!!

Anyway, I already gave it thumbs down after reading the actual text.

But it was an interesting debate. Maybe Arnie should have had such debate too as opposed to signing 300 bills in one sitting.

Arnie, HE THE CRAZY!!!!

The roids are taking their toll.....
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:32 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,358 posts, read 26,507,138 times
Reputation: 11351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Not most. There are 11 states with full open carry law. So, yes, anyone can carry in those states, even on foot.
11? Check this map, more than 11...http://www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:38 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,358 posts, read 26,507,138 times
Reputation: 11351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
People from Vermont, and Arizona who can carry in their own states without licence, can't carry anywhere else unless they get a permit. So, if this is the measure of freedom, as it seems to be for many posters here, then I am freer than they are.
I can go across the border to NH and up to Maine with my gun in the open. There's 27 states where I can open carry without a license, 2 where I can conceal carry without one, and one (Montana) where I can conceal without a license in rural areas outside certain areas (and open carry everywhere else).
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:59 PM
 
1,043 posts, read 1,292,308 times
Reputation: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post

The sharp increase in homicides from the mid-1980's through the early 1990's and much of the subsequent decline is attributable to gun violence by juveniles and young adults.

Among prisoners carrying a firearm during their crime, 40% of State inmates and 56% of Federal inmates received a sentence enhancement because of the firearm.

The FBI's Crime in the United States estimated that 66% of the 16,137 murders in 2004 were committed with firearms.

In 2007, about 68% of all murders, 43% of all robberies, and 21% of all aggravated assaults that were reported to the police were committed with a firearm.



As you can see, a lot of the homicides are committed by armed teens aka gang-bangers, and the new law is hoped to reduce these people's access to ammo. I am against disarming law-abiding citizens, but I have nothing against making is hard for gang-bangers buy ammo, and I think this law might just do that.

I still have not seen a strong argument against the law. All I have seen so far are old conspiracy theories.

The law does nothing to make individuals safer, it only limits individuals freedom. Any person with ability to do basic division could note this law has done nothing to make anyone in the state of California Safer. The facts posted are not in your favor. In fact they make you seem completely out of touch with reality.

Homicide is the least committed crime in the US (FACT)

From 1976 to 2005 --
  • 86% of white victims were killed by whites
  • 94% of black victims were killed by blacks
Fact most homicide is intra-racial meaning it only happens to people of the same race! How does sending gang members to prison make us any safer????


Bureau of Justice Statistics Homicide trends in the U.S.: Trends by race (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm - broken link)
The race distribution of homicide victims and offenders differs by type of homicide

For the years 1976-2005 combined -
  • Black victims are over represented in homicides involving drugs. Compared with the overall involvement of blacks as victims, blacks are less often the victims of sex-related homicides, workplace killings, and homicide by poison.
  • Race patterns among offenders are similar to those among victims.
Homicide Type by Race, 1976-2005

Victims Offenders
White Black Other White Black Other
All homicides 50.9% 46.9% 2.1% 45.8% 52.2% 2.0% Victim/offender relationship
Intimate 56.6% 41.2% 2.2% 54.4% 43.4% 2.2%
Family 60.7% 36.9% 2.4% 59.2% 38.5% 2.3%
Infanticide 55.9% 41.6% 2.5% 55.4% 42.1% 2.5%
Eldercide 69.2% 29.1% 1.6% 54.5% 43.8% 1.6% Circumstances
Felony murder 54.7% 42.7% 2.6% 39.1% 59.3% 1.6%
Sex related 66.9% 30.5% 2.5% 54.7% 43.4% 1.9%
Drug related 37.4% 61.6% .9% 33.9% 65.0% 1.1%
Gang related 57.5% 39.0% 3.5% 54.3% 41.2% 4.4%
Argument 48.6% 49.3% 2.1% 46.8% 51.1% 2.2%
Workplace 84.6% 12.2% 3.2% 70.5% 26.7% 2.8% Weapon
Gun homicide 47.2% 50.9% 1.9% 41.9% 56.4% 1.7%
Arson 58.9% 38.1% 2.9% 55.7% 42.0% 2.3%
Poison 80.6% 16.9% 2.5% 79.8% 18.4% 1.8% Multiple victims or offenders
Multiple victims 63.4% 33.2% 3.3% 55.7% 40.8% 3.5%
Multiple offenders 54.8% 42.5% 2.7% 44.6% 53.0% 2.4%
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,273,270 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
DOJ statistics. They carried them while they committed the crimes JUNIOR!!!

....
Did you READ WHAT YOU WROTE???

You said, the INMATES - the INMATES were carrying the weapons

Not the Crook. Or Criminal. Or Bad Guy. The INMATE.

One does NOT become an INMATE until arrested and convicted and incarcerated.

In all my years in CRIMINAL LAW, and having visited a lot of JAILS, and PRISONS, I have NEVER, EVER seen an INMATE carrying a firearm!
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Old 10-14-2009, 05:22 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,659,569 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
11? Check this map, more than 11...OpenCarry.org - A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost!
What did you have? 12? Ok, 11 or 12.
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Old 10-14-2009, 05:27 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,659,569 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
I can go across the border to NH and up to Maine with my gun in the open. There's 27 states where I can open carry without a license, 2 where I can conceal carry without one, and one (Montana) where I can conceal without a license in rural areas outside certain areas (and open carry everywhere else).
There are only 11 states with full open carry law, then there are others such as Maine, who support it in theory, but have restrictive laws and exceptions. You need to be careful when you carry in those states unless you are fully aware of all their laws regarding their carry laws
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Old 10-14-2009, 05:31 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,659,569 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Did you READ WHAT YOU WROTE???

You said, the INMATES - the INMATES were carrying the weapons

Not the Crook. Or Criminal. Or Bad Guy. The INMATE.

One does NOT become an INMATE until arrested and convicted and incarcerated.

In all my years in CRIMINAL LAW, and having visited a lot of JAILS, and PRISONS, I have NEVER, EVER seen an INMATE carrying a firearm!
The sentence obviously means they carried the weapon while the committed the crime, not when they did the time.

Among prisoners carrying a firearm during their crime, 40% of State inmates and 56% of Federal inmates received a sentence enhancement because of the firearm.
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