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So as a blind person, you had jobs a blind person could do? You should go give those 70% of blind people that are lazy bums to get out there and get employed...
Many of those blind people are trying to find a job but being met with red tape. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I was offered a job and then the offer was rescinded the second they found out I was blind. It was all great and dandy when I emailed them my resume and talked on the phone and then the second I walked in with my cane it was "oh, we don't have any more positions available..." or "oh, we already found our ideal employee..." blah blah blah. Once, there was a 10 minute period between the time a hotel manager enthusiastically told me to come interview for the job and then suddenly had all the places filled when I arrived. Blind people aren't any lazier than the population at large, but there is a lot of ignorance about what blind people can and can't do, and HR reps are not immune to that ignorance. They have all the same ideas of blind people being awkward and dependent on sighted people for absolutely everything as the rest of the general population.
The other day on the news they were talking about how my state is ready to hire a lot of new state troopers. "Women and minorities are encouraged to apply". Can anyone explain to me how that is not discriminating against white males? Since when does gender or race have anything to do with how well they would preform the job? How about me, I'm a minority, I'm Danish, theres not all that many of those. Oh wait a second that doesn't count because they're basing it off the color of my skin... I thought America was *supposed* to be moving past racism and sexism, but I guess not.
Right, but who wants to pay for that when they can avoid it? Further - even if a blind person can do a job, can they do it as well and as easily as a non-blind person?
It depends on the person and the task at hand. Blind people are just as varied in their skills and abilities as sighted people. I cannot speak for all blind people but I can speak for myself.
I’ve never needed expensive or burdensome accommodations for any of my jobs. I have adaptive technology on my computer already and I don’t need accommodations to interpret. I didn’t need any special accommodations to tutor swimming, languages, braille technology, or interpret between languages either. I should also mention, I’ve done gigs for jazz piano and didn’t need accommodations for that either.
Admittedly, you are probably faster at scanning an aisle of food for a specific brand of Campbell’s soup.
You can probably skim documents for specific keywords faster than I can.
On the flip side…
I type 140 WPM on the computer. How fast do you type?
I speak 7 languages fluently and 11 to some degree. How many languages do you speak?
Blind people need to be assessed as individuals for their specific skills sets, and how effective each applicant will be for a specific job. Treating blind people like one monolithic group of people that are guaranteed to be inefficient and ineffective is discrimination.
i don't know but i'm surprised these employers aren't going against the americans with disabilities act. if a person only needs a reasonable accommodation, they aren't supposed to deny them employment.
They aren't, but only because of a technicality. Most employers are wise enough not to cite my blindness as the reason for denying me employment, so I have no legal basis to fight on. However, a few have straight up said "you're blind, I can't hire you" and I could have sewed them for big bucks. Luckily for them, I'm not the type to file lawsuits.
Congratulatons ... you can count which number is bigger ... even at the real 23% ... 70% is higher. And just what did you expect? Dead even? Close? What? The facts are ... the larger the rate of the general public, the more impact it will have on those who are either handicapped or challenged in some other way ... this is called .... R E A L I T Y. Welcome ... come in ... we've been waiting for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky
Is society to blame for the fact people are physically blind and there are some physical limitations? No. Is there discrimination against blind people? Yes. Is society to blame for the component of the unemployment rate that is a result of sighted people assuming the blind are much more handicapped than they really are? Yes.
Again, I'm sorry to be so blunt with reality ... but the greater percentage of jobs find eyesight to be an extreme advantage in performing the tasks. That's not discrimination. That's reality. No matter what you do ... no matter how much you protest .. reality will not go away. And it's nobody's fault .... nobody is to "blame" ... it just is what it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky
Did I ever say that a blind person should do heart surgery or be a bus driver? No. Did I point out that most people focus on what blind people can't do, and not what they can? Yes. Is that exactly what you did in your post--pointing out a handful of jobs blind people can't do instead of focusing on what the blind can do? Yep. Thanks for proving my point.
You have no point to prove. You have a very slanted and self serving story that does not pass the smell test. Maybe it is your blindness that prevents you from seeing the scope of your limitations compared to a sighted person. The idea that only a "few" of the vast number of tasks in the workforce require sight .. while most do not is utterly preposterous. I wasn't being selective .. just brief.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky
It's discrimination when people's concept of what the blind can and can't do is completely overblown from reality, and blind people are often denied jobs that they CAN do. That's the part that's discrimination.
Earth to you .... society doesn't owe you anything. This is perhaps the greatest challenge you liberals face ... this "because I breathe and I exist ... I deserve all" mentality.
Reality ... the larger percentage of jobs require eyesight ... consequently, the greater number of opportunities will go to the sighted rather than the blind. It's not a prejudice against the blind, it is a fundamental reality of the limitations inherent in blindness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky
I'm not saying that blind people should go and fly a plane. But blind people can be lawyers, doctors (exempting the surgical aspect), factory workers, etc. Even the military has blind people working in the civilian branch, Navair (I just got a braille pamphlet about it the other day, lol). More employers need to get on board and realize that they don't know what blind people can and can't do, and they should be asking instead of assuming.
Sorry ... but you'll not likely see the entirety of legal cases, legal history, law libraries and such translated into braille. A lawyer needs to have eyesight ... doctors too ... "hey Doc ... take a look at this rash ... whatta ya think that could be"? "Uh .. don't know, never seen anything like it before ... fact is, I can't see at all" ?
It depends on the person and the task at hand. Blind people are just as varied in their skills and abilities as sighted people. I cannot speak for all blind people but I can speak for myself.
I’ve never needed expensive or burdensome accommodations for any of my jobs. I have adaptive technology on my computer already and I don’t need accommodations to interpret. I didn’t need any special accommodations to tutor swimming, languages, braille technology, or interpret between languages either. I should also mention, I’ve done gigs for jazz piano and didn’t need accommodations for that either.
Admittedly, you are probably faster at scanning an aisle of food for a specific brand of Campbell’s soup.
You can probably skim documents for specific keywords faster than I can.
On the flip side…
I type 140 WPM on the computer. How fast do you type?
I speak 7 languages fluently and 11 to some degree. How many languages do you speak?
Blind people need to be assessed as individuals for their specific skills sets, and how effective each applicant will be for a specific job. Treating blind people like one monolithic group of people that are guaranteed to be inefficient and ineffective is discrimination.
I don't disagree that they need to be assessed as individuals - but the issue is how many jobs can be done just as well with just as little difficulty by blind people. If it turns out that non-blind people can do 75% of jobs better than blind people, that means blind people have to focus on those jobs they will do just as well. Are there any organizations out there that steer handicapped people towards professions where they can be fully competitive?
Congratulatons ... you can count which number is bigger ... even at the real 23% ... 70% is higher. And just what did you expect? Dead even? Close? What? The facts are ... the larger the rate of the general public, the more impact it will have on those who are either handicapped or challenged in some other way ... this is called .... R E A L I T Y. Welcome ... come in ... we've been waiting for you.
Again, I'm sorry to be so blunt with reality ... but the greater percentage of jobs find eyesight to be an extreme advantage in performing the tasks. That's not discrimination. That's reality. No matter what you do ... no matter how much you protest .. reality will not go away. And it's nobody's fault .... nobody is to "blame" ... it just is what it is.
You have no point to prove. You have a very slanted and self serving story that does not pass the smell test. Maybe it is your blindness that prevents you from seeing the scope of your limitations compared to a sighted person. The idea that only a "few" of the vast number of tasks in the workforce require sight .. while most do not is utterly preposterous. I wasn't being selective .. just brief.
Earth to you .... society doesn't owe you anything. This is perhaps the greatest challenge you liberals face ... this "because I breathe and I exist ... I deserve all" mentality.
Reality ... the larger percentage of jobs require eyesight ... consequently, the greater number of opportunities will go to the sighted rather than the blind. It's not a prejudice against the blind, it is a fundamental reality of the limitations inherent in blindness.
Sorry ... but you'll not likely see the entirety of legal cases, legal history, law libraries and such translated into braille. A lawyer needs to have eyesight ... doctors too ... "hey Doc ... take a look at this rash ... whatta ya think that could be"? "Uh .. don't know, never seen anything like it before ... fact is, I can't see at all" ?
WHY MUST ANYONE SPELL THIS OUT FOR YOU?
If that's the case,how did Gov Patterson become the first blind governor?
It depends on the person and the task at hand. Blind people are just as varied in their skills and abilities as sighted people. I cannot speak for all blind people but I can speak for myself.
I’ve never needed expensive or burdensome accommodations for any of my jobs. I have adaptive technology on my computer already and I don’t need accommodations to interpret. I didn’t need any special accommodations to tutor swimming, languages, braille technology, or interpret between languages either. I should also mention, I’ve done gigs for jazz piano and didn’t need accommodations for that either.
Admittedly, you are probably faster at scanning an aisle of food for a specific brand of Campbell’s soup.
You can probably skim documents for specific keywords faster than I can.
On the flip side…
I type 140 WPM on the computer. How fast do you type?
I speak 7 languages fluently and 11 to some degree. How many languages do you speak?
Blind people need to be assessed as individuals for their specific skills sets, and how effective each applicant will be for a specific job. Treating blind people like one monolithic group of people that are guaranteed to be inefficient and ineffective is discrimination.
And do you say these kinds of absurd things in all seven languages or is that reserved for just English?
Look ... 7 languages is impressive .... 140 wpm is too. However .... if you can only proof read at 30 wpm ... that kinda negates the advantage. And if your job requires you to converse in those 7 languages, I'd say you have an extreme advantage over 99.9% of the population. Most jobs however, do not require such skills, therefore fluency in 7 languages provides you no particular advantage.
It's important for people to be confident in themselves and their abilities no matter who they are or what obstacles they have to overcome ... and I have to say that I have always admired the fortitude and courage of blind people who go for it and not let their limitation get in their way .... it's a very strong quality. But so is realism and recognizing that the vast percentage of jobs out there don't require geniuses or the highly or uniquely skilled .... just average intelligence ... and basic capability .. with eyesight being the most important of those skills ... whether you are assembling widgets in a factory or baking cupcakes at a bakery .... eyesight generally offers an extreme advantage. And no matter how skilled in the art, nor how tasty the cupcake ... the blind baker will be slower and less proficient than the sighted person. And if I own a bakery, I want my bakers to not only produce the best tasting cupcakes ... but also produce them at the maximum rate attainable.
If you have ever watched the goings on in a commercial kitchen, you would automatically know that a blind person just could not make it, since most sighted people can't cut it either ... no matter how great they are at cooking meals at home.
And do you say these kinds of absurd things in all seven languages or is that reserved for just English?
Look ... 7 languages is impressive .... 140 wpm is too. However .... if you can only proof read at 30 wpm ... that kinda negates the advantage. And if your job requires you to converse in those 7 languages, I'd say you have an extreme advantage over 99.9% of the population. Most jobs however, do not require such skills, therefore fluency in 7 languages provides you no particular advantage.
It's important for people to be confident in themselves and their abilities no matter who they are or what obstacles they have to overcome ... and I have to say that I have always admired the fortitude and courage of blind people who go for it and not let their limitation get in their way .... it's a very strong quality. But so is realism and recognizing that the vast percentage of jobs out there don't require geniuses or the highly or uniquely skilled .... just average intelligence ... and basic capability .. with eyesight being the most important of those skills ... whether you are assembling widgets in a factory or baking cupcakes at a bakery .... eyesight generally offers an extreme advantage. And no matter how skilled in the art, nor how tasty the cupcake ... the blind baker will be slower and less proficient than the sighted person. And if I own a bakery, I want my bakers to not only produce the best tasting cupcakes ... but also produce them at the maximum rate attainable.
If you have ever watched the goings on in a commercial kitchen, you would automatically know that a blind person just could not make it, since most sighted people can't cut it either ... no matter how great they are at cooking meals at home.
R E A L I T Y.
OK? so are you willing to pay them to live out of taxes for the rest of their lives then? if not employers should be FORCED to not discriminate against blind people if they can do the same job with a reasonable amount of assistance (like technology and such).
i'm assuming that blind people have to eat and pay bills too.
I guess that means that you're FOR this government program then, right?
No ... government propaganda ... the actual unemployment figure is between 15-23%, depending on which source you cite. Take your pick.
Okay that’s still nowhere near 70%. Sorry. You cannot deny the fact that there is a huge discrepancy in employment rate between the general population and the blind population.
Quote:
Congratulatons ... you can count which number is bigger ... even at the real 23% ... 70% is higher. And just what did you expect? Dead even? Close? What? The facts are ... the larger the rate of the general public, the more impact it will have on those who are either handicapped or challenged in some other way ... this is called .... R E A L I T Y. Welcome ... come in ... we've been waiting for you.
Yes, I know, I am much closer to the reality of the blind unemployment rate than you are. So would you like to continue to tell me how white (able-bodied, heterosexual, privileged, middle-to-upper-class) men are so so discriminated against?
Quote:
Again, I'm sorry to be so blunt with reality ... but the greater percentage of jobs find eyesight to be an extreme advantage in performing the tasks. That's not discrimination. That's reality. No matter what you do ... no matter how much you protest .. reality will not go away. And it's nobody's fault .... nobody is to "blame" ... it just is what it is.
Um, yes it is. The attitude that blind people cannot do a job that they can is discrimination. I’m the one that is living blind here. I think I just might know more about the reality of how people treat the blind than you. Have you considered that, or do you still think you know more about blindness than me?
Quote:
You have no point to prove. You have a very slanted and self serving story that does not pass the smell test. Maybe it is your blindness that prevents you from seeing the scope of your limitations compared to a sighted person. The idea that only a "few" of the vast number of tasks in the workforce require sight .. while most do not is utterly preposterous. I wasn't being selective .. just brief.
I don’t need to. The statistics speak for themselves. You don’t even know what blind people can and can’t do. How can you speak to what we can do? Did you know that blind people can cook, clean, browse the net, go to college, have sex, and travel independently? Did you know that the National Federation of the Blind and Virginia Tech are currently partnering up to make a car that functions by audio-output so that blind people will be able to drive in the future? Who is really blind to the scope of possibilities here? You are the one placing limitations on the blind that are not there logistically, only attitudinally. Often people do not let me do things that I can do alone, whether it’s pouring a cup of coffee or finding the door.
Right now I am fighting with my college, for the third time, to get braille accommodations for school. Do you know what it’s like not to be able to go to school, because someone who doesn’t even know you, decided they don’t want to provide braille? Have you ever applied to a college only to have the disability office tell you they don’t need to accommodate you because “school is a choice”? How is that not discrimination? It’s not that I can’t go to school, or that I can’t read, it’s that someone won’t provide me accommodations. They don’t have to be expensive either. Paper braille is admittedly expensive to produce, but now with my braille display, anyone can send me an electronic file and I can read it the same way I’m reading these forums. It’s completely free to send me an electronic file, because most professors type up their papers on the computer before printing them out anyway. All they have to do is email it to me instead of printing it out. There’s no financial or other logistical barrier to that solution, only an attitudinal one.
Quote:
Earth to you .... society doesn't owe you anything. This is perhaps the greatest challenge you liberals face ... this "because I breathe and I exist ... I deserve all" mentality.
Reality ... the larger percentage of jobs require eyesight ... consequently, the greater number of opportunities will go to the sighted rather than the blind. It's not a prejudice against the blind, it is a fundamental reality of the limitations inherent in blindness.
Yes they do. Society owes everyone, regardless of who they are, the right to be judged on the content of their character, and in the employment realm, on their skill sets--and not on an immutable trait. It doesn’t matter whether that immutable trait is skin color, disability, race, gender, socioeconomic status, or whatever. Each person deserves to be evaluated for a job, or in any other area of their life, based on what they say and do, and not based on something they cannot change about themselves. Society owes you that just as much as they owe me that, and everyone else. But society does not owe me anymore than that, and I am not claiming that they do.
Quote:
Sorry ... but you'll not likely see the entirety of legal cases, legal history, law libraries and such translated into braille. A lawyer needs to have eyesight ... doctors too ... "hey Doc ... take a look at this rash ... whatta ya think that could be"? "Uh .. don't know, never seen anything like it before ... fact is, I can't see at all" ?
WHY MUST ANYONE SPELL THIS OUT FOR YOU?
Not true. It’s completely easy to scan those documents into a computer and translate them to braille. Ever heard of optical recognition software? Ever heard of the K-NFB Kurzweil reader? Oh wait—you probably haven’t, because you know next to nothing about how blind people do things. You can take a picture of a print menu at a restaurant and have it translated into speech output.
Just admit you have no idea what you’re talking about, GuyNTexas. Get back to me when you actually meet and get to know a blind person in real life.
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