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Old 10-09-2019, 04:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post

However, the end effect on kids from families that place a premium on education, is often minimal. I really think that there has to be an overwhelming majority of disadvantaged kids to the point that resources in the way of instruction quality, time and attention from faculty are reduced.
Do you have data on this? I'm not disagreeing, but I'd like to see data.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post

To that end, Wake County's demographics are such that it isn't a huge concern; Wake County is a more educated place than areas like Nassau County or Suffolk County NY, though not quite on par with some NOVA counties. On the whole, our "Average" is better than a lot of other places.

51% of adults in the county over 25 have a Bachelor's degree, 96.5% a HS Diploma.
Of those that are transplants, how many of those would have reconsidered or never considered moving here if the schools were rated lower in the area they planned to move to? I think the number might be higher than you think. There is a huge Sourthern Asian population moving to the Triangle. Education is the #1 priority for many of these families. Education is the #1 priority for a lot of families, Southern Asian or not. I personally wouldn't have considered moving here if the schools weren't comparable to where I was coming from.

I know that test scores and statistics aren't everything, but when you're moving to an area you really have nothing else to go on. Personally if I don't know anyone in the area, I'm not going to just take a stranger's word for it. I'm going to go by numbers and numbers only.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post

I think your fears are either pearl clutching or thinly veiled racism.
And I think part of the problem is people can't or are afraid to bring things like this up because they fear being called a racist. This has absolutely nothing to do with race. Socioeconomics, sure. The higher rated schools in the Triangle are extremely diverse if you're just looking at skin color.

Last edited by m378; 10-09-2019 at 04:47 PM..
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Old 10-09-2019, 05:07 PM
 
Location: under the beautiful Carolina blue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post

When 2 relatively close elementary schools are built to a capacity of 800 kids each, and enough people flock to the assigned neighborhoods that each gets assigned 1100 kids, then they are going to take 300 kids per school and build a 3rd school to handle them and future nearby capacity.

.
And so they built White Oak Elementary which is at about 60% capacity and now they want to reassign people from there to Salem...which is a pretty good ride, and we've already got transportation issues. Some of the areas the BOE is showing as high growth potential are farms and/or zoned for retail. In fact TOC has already granted approval for one area to be zoned for a retail area (next to Landsdowne subdivision). So why do they need to reassign kids from White Oak to Salem now? yup, social engineering as you put it.
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Old 10-09-2019, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Research Triangle Area, NC
4,084 posts, read 2,796,022 times
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-Small & Localized School District

-High-Performing Schools

-Low Property Taxes

Pick 2; you ain't getting the 3rd.

In my experience; that third one is a main driving factor in a SIGNIFICANT amount of moves to the Triangle area. The second is almost a subsidiary of the first that tends to drive up demand in Western Wake. The "price" for that....is a large, county-wide school district that is just NOT going to function in the same way as a smaller localized district (and the higher taxes that come with it) will.

Last edited by TarHeelNick; 10-09-2019 at 05:24 PM..
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Old 10-09-2019, 05:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TarHeelNick View Post
Pick 2; you ain't getting the 3rd.

-Small & Localized School District

-High-Performing Schools

-Low Property Taxes

In a vacuum, I already disproved this.


Unless you consider a .14 increase in the percentage rate I pay in Wake Forest "not low".


Now if you mean "you can't have all three here in NC". Fine, I won't challenge that. But that says more about us than it does about the scarcity of those things.

ETA - Nick, my only point is NC isn't some "low tax haven" place. Between Sales, Income and Property taxes, I would venture to guess we are probably about middle of the road for the country. But I can assure you there are towns in many parts of this country who don't have anything approaching the numbers we have seen shared here (NY, Long Island, Jersey) in terms of property taxes, that also have good to great schools and the district is the town.

Last edited by GVoR; 10-09-2019 at 05:40 PM..
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Old 10-09-2019, 05:25 PM
 
Location: under the beautiful Carolina blue
17,359 posts, read 26,679,748 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TarHeelNick View Post
Pick 2; you ain't getting the 3rd.

-Small & Localized School District

-High-Performing Schools

-Low Property Taxes

In my experience; that third one is a main driving factor in a SIGNIFICANT amount of moves to the Triangle area. The second is almost a subsidiary of the first that tends to drive up demand in Western Wake. The "price" for that....is a large, county-wide school district that is just NOT going to function in the same way as a smaller localized district (and the higher taxes that come with it) will.
Like asking for something to be done "quick, cheap and good"!

I think we are all aware that reassignments can and will happen for the right reasons, this BOE is on record as saying the real reasons for it, it's just no one pays attention till the crap hits the fan.
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Old 10-09-2019, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Research Triangle Area, NC
4,084 posts, read 2,796,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GVoR View Post
In a vacuum, I already disproved this.


Unless you consider a .14 increase in the percentage rate I pay in Wake Forest "not low".


Now if you mean "you can't have all three here in NC". Fine, I won't challenge that. But that says more about us than it does about the scarcity of those things.

ETA - Nick, my only point is NC isn't some "low tax haven" place. Between Sales, Income and Property taxes, I would venture to guess we are probably about middle of the road for the country. But I can assure you there are towns in many parts of this country who don't have anything approaching the numbers we have seen shared here (NY, Long Island, Jersey) in terms of property taxes, that also have good to great schools and the district is the town.
We are in 100% agreement....I think you might have misunderstood my point?

Wake Forest is part of WCPSS.... what is the vacuum to which you are referring where the "pick 2 of 3" rule doesn't hold water?

I was definitely not referring only to NC.
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TarHeelNick View Post
We are in 100% agreement....I think you might have misunderstood my point?

Wake Forest is part of WCPSS.... what is the vacuum to which you are referring where the "pick 2 of 3" rule doesn't hold water?

I was definitely not referring only to NC.
I don’t think we are.

Maybe we should level set. What do you consider high property taxes ?

Here’s what I know. The town my wife and I first lived together in has its own school district, it’s HS ranks the same as Green Hope HS in Cary (based on GreatSchool rankings, which I know everyone hates but I don’t know a better interstate comparison method). so check for small/local district and high performing.

The property tax liability would be $1240 more a year (assuming two equally assessed homes) compared to what I pay in Wake Forest (I have no idea what Cary taxes are like)

$103 a month more in property taxes and I could have my own high performing, town aligned school district? Yes please. I pay more a month for Cable Internet. Unless you think the 11.80/1000 rate Im paying in WF is high....I wouldn’t consider it so...

The bigger impact is property values in your triangle of haves; which is equal to, if not more so (vs taxes) why Yankees move down here. Taxes aren’t drastically better here (excluding those insane rates from NY/NJ/Western CT), but houses are drastically cheaper. Why pay $4300 a year on a 1960s ranch when you can pay $4300 on a McMansion?

Last edited by GVoR; 10-09-2019 at 07:36 PM..
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GVoR View Post
I don’t think we are.

Maybe we should level set. What do you consider high property taxes ?

Here’s what I know. The town my wife and I first lived together in has its own school district, it’s HS ranks the same as Green Hope HS in Cary (based on GreatSchool rankings, which I know everyone hates but I don’t know a better interstate comparison method). so check for small/local district and high performing.

The property tax liability would be $1240 more a year (assuming two equally assessed homes) compared to what I pay in Wake Forest (I have no idea what Cary taxes are like)

$103 a month more in property taxes and I could have my own high performing, town aligned school district? Yes please. I pay more a month for Cable Internet. Unless you think the 11.80/1000 rate Im paying in WF is high....I wouldn’t consider it so...

The bigger impact is property values in your triangle of haves; which is equal to, if not more so (vs taxes) why Yankees move down here. Taxes aren’t drastically better here (excluding those insane rates from NY/NJ/Western CT), but houses are drastically cheaper. Why pay $4300 a year on a 1960s ranch when you can pay $4300 on a McMansion?
I believe the property tax bills include both county and municipal bundled in one. Since the schools are county-based, I think you should only be comparing to the county portion? Am I off on that?

That being said, northern states also have massive snow budgets built into taxes as well.

It's really hard to compare.
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Old 10-09-2019, 08:02 PM
 
773 posts, read 274,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m378 View Post
I believe the property tax bills include both county and municipal bundled in one. Since the schools are county-based, I think you should only be comparing to the county portion? Am I off on that?

That being said, northern states also have massive snow budgets built into taxes as well.

It's really hard to compare.
The figure I’m throwing around is the all in nut I paid in property taxes; to your point I’m not sure how that is made up town vs county vs....

And yes it’s tough to compare.

My only point was you can have your own town schools districts, good schools and not pay anything near the numbers we’ve seen posters share here over the years; 15-20K in property taxes.


I would gladly pay 6-8K a year in property taxes if I got a town school district. Like you couldn’t take my money fast enough (if what we’re seeing is what I get for $4K)
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Old 10-09-2019, 08:40 PM
 
5,629 posts, read 4,065,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GVoR View Post
The figure I’m throwing around is the all in nut I paid in property taxes; to your point I’m not sure how that is made up town vs county vs....

And yes it’s tough to compare.

My only point was you can have your own town schools districts, good schools and not pay anything near the numbers we’ve seen posters share here over the years; 15-20K in property taxes.


I would gladly pay 6-8K a year in property taxes if I got a town school district. Like you couldn’t take my money fast enough (if what we’re seeing is what I get for $4K)

I think that's one advantage of municipality based school systems. If you want to pay an extra 5k a year in taxes (and more for a house) for what you consider to be better schools, you're welcome to do that. It gives more choice. You can pay 1M and 15k a year in taxes for higher rated schools, or you can move one or two towns over, and pay 500k and 6k a year for lower rated schools. You have that choice.

Ironically MA is one of the most liberal states in the country, and many would probably call their town-based school systems segregated. That confuses me sometimes.

Test scores are going to be higher in areas that attract people who prioritize education - I mean it's not rocket science. Is it bad for people to want to live, work, and go to school with people that have similar values and priorities as their own? Is it up to a school board to determine if that's right or wrong?
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