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It's easy to find information and articles that show that co-habituating couples "break up" more so than marriages. I will quote the nice, neat bulleted list from Rutgers University below. The whole point of not getting married is so it's easier to break up, it's an easy out. and I personally don't think that's a bad thing when it comes to two adults looking to split up (and it's a strong reason I won't marry again)... but it is a very bad thing for children (and we keep forgetting that's the whole point of this thread).
The divorce rate is pretty high too, as has already been said many times. Stability has nothing to do with marriage. If a person is stable, they're stable. If a relationship is stable, it's stable. It'll stay together married or not.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osito
The divorce rate is pretty high too, as has already been said many times. Stability has nothing to do with marriage. If a person is stable, they're stable. If a relationship is stable, it's stable. It'll stay together married or not.
It really isn't though. For first marriages it is only at about 30%. The high was about 40% in the early 80s.
To answer your question, yes it can be accomplished if you find a woman who doesn't equate that piece of paper with undue meaning like love and trust. That'll be your hurdle. My friend built a home and family with a great man she loves who loves her, raised wonderful children, they've been together for decades, happily growing old together, and they're not married.
It worked because both of them considered the actual legal act of marriage and the ceremony and all that the concept of marriage based on those things entails to be unnecessary. If your woman doesn't feel the same way, it'll be a disaster.
That said, there's a difference between not wanting to get married because it's an unnecessary convention you have no problem living without and not wanting to get married because you don't want to deal with the emotional drama you feel it comes with. That speaks to a bigger issue relationship wise that you may want to work out before plunging into something serious.
I love your last paragraph.
I'll add that so much of the anti-marriage sentiment comes from fear. Not that I can blame people for being apprehensive: It's a big commitment. But a lot of the fear I see on this board in particular stems not only from financial self-interest, but from maladaptive views on love and partnership. In fact, some of those views are so maladaptive that they speak to never having been in an adult, committed relationship, and I often find myself thinking, "Don't worry. When you fall in love with someone of substance, we'll all be here to congratulate you on your engagement."
The divorce rate is pretty high too, as has already been said many times. Stability has nothing to do with marriage. If a person is stable, they're stable. If a relationship is stable, it's stable. It'll stay together married or not.
Oh you are right in that being married is no guarantee of stability. I was married and thought it was for life and look what happened to me... my ex husband completely changed and took off.
But the numbers show that parents who are married are less likely to split up than parents who aren't. It might be that the ones who get married are more stable (it might be that it's not that the marriage makes them stable, it's that they are stable to begin with so they get married). Or it might be that because marriage isn't easy to leave, it encourages people to work though tough problems instead of walking away. But, statistically, it's been shown that co-habituating parents are four times more likely to split up.
Now, the OP can very well be one of the exceptions--after all, he's thinking ahead and planning. He might know he will never leave his children and their mother. But what guarantee does he have that his girlfriend won't leave (and leave with his children). Sure, she could leave him if she was his wife too, but, depending on where he lives, he very well could have much greater parental protections as the husband. If he lives in a state where paternal protection is tied to marriage and he isn't married, the mother leaving with the kids will hurt him and his children. He could very well end up shelling out child support for kids he hardly sees--he's hurt and the children miss out on having their real father in their lives. While he might be stable and not be looking for an easy out exactly, a woman willing to agree to no marriage might be looking for an easy out and might be unstable and might be much more willing to leave him than a woman who wants the stability of marriage. It goes both ways.
That's why he needs to do research before assuming. He might be right on what is the best option and it very well could be to stay single (if co-habitation agreements are possible where he lives, that might be a good option for him), but he might be surprised too when he really looks into the law and doesn't blindly accept hyperbole about how marriage can only hurt him.
It sounds to me that the OP, like myself doesn't like the idea of the confinement of marriage. Marriage is no joke. You have to put up with each others farts, put up with their annoying/disgusting habits, snoring, letting themselves go, and basically love everything about them that you initially didn't fall in love with, and if it doesn't work out... the awful emotional pain of divorce.
I've heard people say that marriage was the best thing that ever happened to them and a few say that marriage caused them to lose their "drive" in life. From sharing possessions, from coming to the same scene each day made them feel trapped and unmotivated to do new adventurous things leading to stagnation. Doesn't make marriage sound very exciting does it? lol. OTOH, those who uphold marriage say that it's nothing like having a good partner by your side when things get tough.
Oh, gee. What a tragedy to share possessions! "MY shovel. MY pail! You go to the other side of the sandbox RIGHT NOW!" (Hey, open door. I had to walk through it.)
As for feeling trapped and unmotivated, that can happen in a LTR, too. Ruts and stagnation can happen to anyone. Heck, you don't even need a relationship for that to happen to you. It's all on you to make your life interesting.
Marriage is about more than having a good partner by your side when things get tough. In a healthy marriage, both partners grow together, help each other grow, and support each other in that growth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty2011
Marriage is a union of two people, not a separate entity from the two involved. You get out of it what you put into it, so if you aren't happy, you're responsible for that, not marriage. By blaming marriage as a whole, people are absolving themselves of any responsibility for their choices that got them to where they are.
I agree with Liberty.
It sounds like the OP is confusing a bad marriage with marriage in general. Marriage to the wrong person will suck. This, I know. But that doesn't mean marriage in general makes people unhappy. There are plenty of happily married people around to prove the point.
It sounds like the OP is confusing a bad marriage with marriage in general. Marriage to the wrong person will suck. This, I know. But that doesn't mean marriage in general makes people unhappy. There are plenty of happily married people around to prove the point.
There are also plenty people who are not married, who are perfectly happy with that as well. Some of them are in serious relationships and have kids. I guess the point is, different strokes for different folks.
Culturally things have shifted a bit. Less people feel like marriage is their cup of tea. It's seen as less of the social default than it was 40 years ago. I'm not going to moralize over the thread and say "your lifestyle is wrong, my lifestyle is right", which tends to be what happens whenever someone brings up marriage vs legal domestic partnerships, or monogamy vs polyamory, etc. Some people get something from marriage that they need out of life, emotionally or romantically. Others just feel better leaving the door open, even if it's something they never utilize, just having that possibility there makes them feel a lot better. Divorce, as I've seen, can be a truly painful and expensive process.
I actually would be curious to compare the welfare and psychological wellbeing of children in divorced households vs children whose unmarried parents separated. I'd be willing to bet if you looked at it, the latter would be doing a lot better.
I actually would be curious to compare the welfare and psychological wellbeing of children in divorced households vs children whose unmarried parents separated. I'd be willing to bet if you looked at it, the latter would be doing a lot better.
Since I am a parent and went though a divorce, I bought a lot of books on the subject of children and how they react to it and how to help them though it. All of the books are written about the effects on parents breaking up (divorce or not married). It all has the same effect on kids-- it's all about "why are mommy and daddy not together anymore." What the children care about is the change in their lives... that one parent is now gone (or they now have to split their time between parents). It's the fact that their family is breaking up that hurts them. For the most part, the legal matters behind it all aren't even on children's radar.
There are also plenty people who are not married, who are perfectly happy with that as well. Some of them are in serious relationships and have kids. I guess the point is, different strokes for different folks.
Culturally things have shifted a bit. Less people feel like marriage is their cup of tea. It's seen as less of the social default than it was 40 years ago. I'm not going to moralize over the thread and say "your lifestyle is wrong, my lifestyle is right", which tends to be what happens whenever someone brings up marriage vs legal domestic partnerships, or monogamy vs polyamory, etc. Some people get something from marriage that they need out of life, emotionally or romantically. Others just feel better leaving the door open, even if it's something they never utilize, just having that possibility there makes them feel a lot better. Divorce, as I've seen, can be a truly painful and expensive process.
I actually would be curious to compare the welfare and psychological wellbeing of children in divorced households vs children whose unmarried parents separated. I'd be willing to bet if you looked at it, the latter would be doing a lot better.
I doubt it. Would you think that children with one parent who has taken them from the other are doing better than children who are connected with both parents, however flawed the situation may be?
I doubt it. Would you think that children with one parent who has taken them from the other are doing better than children who are connected with both parents, however flawed the situation may be?
That is a good point too. I was thinking in terms of the mother and father getting along and still sharing custody. But if there is a dispute, in some states, the unmarried father has little to no rights. If the mother wanted to, she could take the children and leave. But a married father has more rights (varies by state) if there is a breakup and some states favor equal custody instead of one parent custody (unless one parent gives up that right or if one parent is found to be somehow unsuited for custody). But again, it depends on the laws of the state and how modernized they are. Some states might offer split custody to unwed fathers, but it's a lot more rare.
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