Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Wanting kids but not wanting to get married seems a common mindset in most gals I know...especially gals coming from two parent households. It seems they've seen how physically, mentally, and emotionally draining marriage is for a gal and how it seems gals are quite shortchanged doing all/most of the household and childcare duties while pressured to have obliged sex and have her concerns dismissed as nagging while being seen as this oh so awful sex withholding shrew that is his ball and chain. Perhaps it may be suited to do what the gals I've known do and adopt or have a surrogate.
I doubt it's difficult to find a gal that wants to have children without marriage. However while you may not just have children with her and then leave her she may leave you and without marriage it seems you may be even more at a loss of getting child custody/visitation rights. What you want can be accomplished without a piece of paper however in my opinion it may be more suited to simply adopt or have a surrogate.
Wanting kids but not wanting to get married seems a common mindset in most gals I know...especially gals coming from two parent households. It seems they've seen how physically, mentally, and emotionally draining marriage is for a gal and how it seems gals are quite shortchanged doing all/most of the household and childcare duties while pressured to have obliged sex and have her concerns dismissed as nagging while being seen as this oh so awful sex withholding shrew that is his ball and chain. Perhaps it may be suited to do what the gals I've known do and adopt or have a surrogate.
It's unfortunate that most of the people in your circle have such terrible experiences. It really does seem like you are surrounded by miserable people who degrade one another in front of you. In my experience married people have much better senses of personal boundaries and respectful behavior toward one another and their friends.
As single mothers, don't they do all of the household and childcare duties, with less money? Being a parent is draining and challenging in itself, which is why people team up. I know some married people don't realize that, or they forget it. The single mothers I know struggle quite a bit, financially and simply by not having another person there to help. None of them were single mothers by choice, so my understanding of that mindset is limited. If the married men you know don't work or are profligate spenders, my experiences are different. I don't want you to think everyone is like this, since you base your beliefs so strongly on the actions of those around you.
Bzzzzzzzzt. Wrong, Ruth. Sorry, you're eliminated from the lightning round. You're correct, a woman can put Ace Frehley or anyone else she feels like on the birth certificate, but the only time that the person listed on the birth certificate as the father is legally presumed to be the father, is when the couple is married.
In some states, you can't even challenge it! And even if you prove yourself NOT the father biologically, you can still be compelled to pay child support.
Thanks feminism!
Unsure why you're thanking feminism unless you have credible factual evidence that it's feminism that created this law or that 'Feminists are 100% behind the way that family and reproductive law is structured today'.
It's unfortunate that most of the people in your circle have such terrible experiences. It really does seem like you are surrounded by miserable people who degrade one another in front of you. In my experience married people have much better senses of personal boundaries and respectful behavior toward one another and their friends.
As single mothers, don't they do all of the household and childcare duties, with less money? Being a parent is draining and challenging in itself, which is why people team up. I know some married people don't realize that, or they forget it. The single mothers I know struggle quite a bit, financially and simply by not having another person there to help. None of them were single mothers by choice, so my understanding of that mindset is limited. If the married men you know don't work or are profligate spenders, my experiences are different. I don't want you to think everyone is like this, since you base your beliefs so strongly on the actions of those around you.
I agree with your second paragraph.
You make a very good point... if you are talking about normal men. But there are a lot of rotten apples out there who only care about themselves and not their families.
I am a single mom now... but I was married. I actually do LESS chores now and less childcare now than I did when married. That's because I 1) no longer have to clean up after another adult, do his laundry, run errands for him, and clean up his messes, etc... and 2) Because we split/joint custody, he actually has to take care of our daughter now too when she's with him (before he did nothing--he's supposed to take her more, but he only takes her 20% of the time, but it's a break from 0%). Although that wouldn't apply to udolipixie 's example of single moms without dads in the picture.
I am also better off financially--but that's a product of my ex being an idiot with money and spending on wasteful things. Like you said, he was a man who was a profligate spender. I run a tighter ship. Where when I was married and we had a combined family income (and were losing money each month) My daughter and I now live off just my salary for the household, but there is an excess of $1200 a month that I simply save. Heck, I can even save for our daughter to go to college now--something he doesn't seem to worry about (he rather spend his money on a new, flashy car).
Okay, maybe I am a little bitter. But my point is, I am much better off.
Another point is, for a woman, it's a crap shoot if you get a good man or a man you are better off without. I think that's what udolpixie is talking about. And you have to consider if the risk is worth it. For some it is, for some it isn't.
Last edited by jillabean; 04-24-2014 at 08:31 AM..
You make a very good point... if you are talking about normal men. But there are a lot of rotten apples out there who only care about themselves and not their families.
I am a single mom now... but I was married. I actually do LESS chores now and less childcare now than I did when married. That's because I 1) no longer have to clean up after another adult, do his laundry, run errands for him, and clean up his messes, etc... and 2) Because we split/joint custody, he actually has to take care of our daughter now too when she's with him (before he did nothing). Although that wouldn't apply to udolipixie 's example of single moms without dads in the picture.
I am also better off financially--but that's a product of my ex being an idiot with money and spending on wasteful things. Like you said, he was a man who was a profligate spender. I run a tighter ship. Where when I was married and we had a combined family income (and were losing money each month) My daughter and I now have less than half the income for our household, but there is an excess of $1200 a month that I simply save. Heck, I can even save for our daughter to go to college now--something he doesn't seem to worry about (he rather spend his money on a new, flashy car).
Okay, maybe I am a little bitter.
My point is, for a woman, it's a crap shoot if you get a good man or a man you are better off without. I think that's what udolpixie is talking about. And you have to consider if the risk is worth it. For some it is, for some it isn't.
Absolutely! But are most of the women around you in the same boat? If not, that's what I was saying.
It's unfortunate that most of the people in your circle have such terrible experiences. It really does seem like you are surrounded by miserable people who degrade one another in front of you. In my experience married people have much better senses of personal boundaries and respectful behavior toward one another and their friends.
As single mothers, don't they do all of the household and childcare duties, with less money? Being a parent is draining and challenging in itself, which is why people team up. I know some married people don't realize that, or they forget it. The single mothers I know struggle quite a bit, financially and simply by not having another person there to help. None of them were single mothers by choice, so my understanding of that mindset is limited. If the married men you know don't work or are profligate spenders, my experiences are different. I don't want you to think everyone is like this, since you base your beliefs so strongly on the actions of those around you.
I agree with your second paragraph.
Meh I wouldn't call them miserable people or what occurs as degrading. However I do oddly enough find that people are quite forthcoming with me.
As for your question it seems that having less money is a non issue for them as long as they have enough money. The gals don't seem to think it's a benefit or advantage to get more money when they're going to likely be doing the same amount of work in regards to household/childcare duties as well as have to endure a male partner.
I unsure how you seemingly got it was a possibility I was talking about married guys that don't work or are profligate spenders when I was talking about home duties. So it seems in that regards our experiences aren't different as the households the two-parent gals with this mindset came from had working fathers and working mothers.
I'm really unsure where you get that I base my beliefs 'so strongly' on the actions of those around me especially when I wasn't even stating my belief but that his mindset seems common among gals I know and listing their reasons. I base my beliefs on statistics, studies, surveys, facts, and credible evidence.
You make a very good point... if you are talking about normal men. But there are a lot of rotten apples out there who only care about themselves and not their families.
I am a single mom now... but I was married. I actually do LESS chores now and less childcare now than I did when married. That's because I 1) no longer have to clean up after another adult, do his laundry, run errands for him, and clean up his messes, etc... and 2) Because we split/joint custody, he actually has to take care of our daughter now too when she's with him (before he did nothing--he's supposed to take her more, but he only takes her 20% of the time, but it's a break from 0%). Although that wouldn't apply to udolipixie 's example of single moms without dads in the picture.
I am also better off financially--but that's a product of my ex being an idiot with money and spending on wasteful things. Like you said, he was a man who was a profligate spender. I run a tighter ship. Where when I was married and we had a combined family income (and were losing money each month) My daughter and I now live off just my salary for the household, but there is an excess of $1200 a month that I simply save. Heck, I can even save for our daughter to go to college now--something he doesn't seem to worry about (he rather spend his money on a new, flashy car).
Okay, maybe I am a little bitter. But my point is, I am much better off.
Another point is, for a woman, it's a crap shoot if you get a good man or a man you are better off without. I think that's what udolpixie is talking about. And you have to consider if the risk is worth it. For some it is, for some it isn't.
Yeah that's pretty much the mindset the gals I was talking about have- marriage is a crap shoot as a gal.
Unsure why you're thanking feminism unless you have credible factual evidence that it's feminism that created this law or that 'Feminists are 100% behind the way that family and reproductive law is structured today'.
Didn't you get the memo? If a man doesn't like something about marriage, women, or relationships, it's feminism's fault. Couldn't possibly be that the man is clinging to a false nostalgia of how much "better" things were in the "good old days" of Ward and June Cleaver. You know, when a women were so dependent on men for their survival that they put up with abuse and infidelity just to have a roof over their heads.
I posit that the men who rail the most about feminism neither understand its basic concepts nor regard women as anything more than a necessary evil for producing children, and they long for some trumped-up Stepford Wife fantasy where they are dominant and get to control another human being just because she has ovaries. They're misogynists at their very core.
Meh I wouldn't call them miserable people or what occurs as degrading. However I do oddly enough find that people are quite forthcoming with me.
This sheltered outlook is what I am talking about. In my social circle, husbands and wives do not complain about one another to their friends, let alone acquaintances (not sure how far "most gals I know" extends for you). I've never heard husband calling their wives shrews or naggers or balls-and-chains, or wives talking about enduring sex. I would distance myself from anyone who showed that kind of disrespect, as would my other friends.
Quote:
As for your question it seems that having less money is a non issue for them as long as they have enough money. The gals don't seem to think it's a benefit or advantage to get more money when they're going to likely be doing the same amount of work in regards to household/childcare duties as well as have to endure a male partner.
I unsure how you seemingly got it was a possibility I was talking about married guys that don't work or are profligate spenders when I was talking about home duties. So it seems in that regards our experiences are not different as the households the two-parent gals with this mindset came from had working fathers and working mothers.
I added a sentence that broke up what I was trying to say. I wondered about doing all the housework and childcare with less money, then stated that I could understand the disadvantage of also having no additional income or a big spender to support. The single mothers I know struggle financially. The ones around you have enough money, okay. Poverty is still a big problem, and large-scale single motherhood (i.e. "most of the gals I know") is not common in wealthier groups.
Quote:
I'm really unsure where you get that I base my beliefs 'so strongly' on the actions of those around me especially when I wasn't even stating my belief but that his mindset seems common among gals I know and listing their reasons. I base my beliefs on statistics, studies, surveys, facts, and credible evidence.
For example, you don't see being called a shrew or the other rude names as degrading. That's not something you learned from objective research.
Wanting kids but not wanting to get married seems a common mindset in most gals I know...especially gals coming from two parent households. It seems they've seen how physically, mentally, and emotionally draining marriage is for a gal and how it seems gals are quite shortchanged doing all/most of the household and childcare duties while pressured to have obliged sex and have her concerns dismissed as nagging while being seen as this oh so awful sex withholding shrew that is his ball and chain. Perhaps it may be suited to do what the gals I've known do and adopt or have a surrogate.
I doubt it's difficult to find a gal that wants to have children without marriage. However while you may not just have children with her and then leave her she may leave you and without marriage it seems you may be even more at a loss of getting child custody/visitation rights. What you want can be accomplished without a piece of paper however in my opinion it may be more suited to simply adopt or have a surrogate.
Ah...
So more of those blanket statements and general unpleasantness you seem so fond of spreading...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
But my point is, I am much better off. 
