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I get that, but don't discount the advantage you had because you had a stable two parent upbringing.
Definitely not. I feel blessed to have grown up in a stable home with two parents that loved me even though they didn't have the best marriage. They stuck it out and did the best they could even though they may have each been happier with someone else.
That and the fact that there are a disproportionate number of men who have become a sort of social out cast as far as good jobs and desirable women. As the currancy crumbles who do you think is going to be recruited by the unknown future power to be their muscle. In germany it was the SS and the SA who were hitlers thugs.
The other possibility is we will just slowly seep into second world status and the smart people will simply leave to which ever nation fills that power vacuum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlife2
I guess, but what do you think will happen when large groups of men are pissed off?
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Originally Posted by NilaJones
Same thing that happens now:
- Some will get counseling, and learn how to identify and heal the emotional problems that make them unattractive to women.
- Some will become christian terr*rists (or whatever their local religion is).
- Some will become other kinds of criminals and go to jail.
- Some will admit to themselves that they are gay, and find a husband and a happy life.
- Some will continue to live in their parents' basement forever.
It's true that, as you imply, guys like this are very vulnerable to being manipulated into hate crimes, because of the way they try to pin their rage on a target outside of themselves. But there are a host of other societal issues that have to come into play before they can all get manipulated by the same leader.
Bang on, Nila.
It just amazes me the way some men, unsatisfied with the trajectory of their lives (professionally, economically, socially, sexually), feel the deep-seated need to find some scapegoat for their own shortcomings and frustrations.
And they rant, and they rave, and they always blame someone else. In the case of some men on CD, that whipping boy, so to speak, is women. It's all the fault of women, of feminism, blah, blah, blah.
Their REAL problem, ultimately, is their incredible sense of entitlement and privilege:
THEY are entitled to all the good, high-paying jobs (because they're men);
THEY are entitled to "desirable" women (because they just are);
THEY are entitled to sex, money, status, etc (because they're so, oh, I don't know: incredible-looking? intelligent? highly educated? hard working? successful?)
And if they don't get whatever they want, whenever they want it, and with whom they want it, then gawd help us all...
That and the fact that there are a disproportionate number of men who have
become a sort of social out cast as far as good jobs and desirable women. As the
currancy crumbles who do you think is going to be recruited by the unknown
future power to be their muscle. In germany it was the SS and the SA who were
hitlers thugs.
Those who lose out on good jobs have only their self to blame. Our society has always had higher numbers of poor and underemployed. When polygamy was practiced and the acceptance of mistresses and concubines was common there were more men who were left with no mate. This did not lead to economic collapse or hordes of angry young men. Desirable women? Perhaps you should fish in your own pond. You do realize that the state of the economy has nothing to do with personal intimate relationships nor the economic collapse that led to Hitler’s power.
Quote:
What do you think guys with nothing to loose are going to do when they are
granted access to the "party" and only members of that party will be getting
good jobs and thus the only ones that can provide any security for a woman. Oh
and by the way the hot douch who was landing all the women before just may have
his door kicked in and be sent off some where and womens rights will disappear
over night (divorce protection, etc, etc).
The other possibility is we will just slowly seep into second world status
and the smart people will simply leave to which ever nation fills that power
vacuum.
Well women don’t need security from an outside source. Women have gained the ability to provide their own financial security.
But, hey if you believe this country is going to become a communist dictatorship overnight, recruit all the unfortunate tight souls that can’t get a desirable mate to overpower those more fortunate loose souls and basically enslave half the population based on gender, me thinks you need to adjust your tin foil hat.
[quote=DandyWarhol;34600718]
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl
What, specifically, is unnatural about the "situation" we're in now?
And can you elaborate on this unpleasant "correction" that you predict?[/quote]
I don't want to speak for highlife2, but the correction is going to be when the government/society/culture runs out of other people's money to paper over the bad choices of "strong, independent, empowered" (lol)women.
And I disagree that our current situation is unnatural, we're actually returning to what is natural...i.e. the law of the jungle, survival of the fittest. But he's correct, it's still bad.
Well, for one thing,strong independent empowered women aren’t the ones on welfare. Furthermore the correction for that has been implemented, its called enforced child support payments for those men who made bad choices.
Survival of the fittest, honestly? Just because certain behaviors have been practiced and socially acceptable in the past does not make them the natural state of being. Educationally,no child left behind knocks down the theory of survival of the fittest. Socially and economically this thing called affirmative action would snuff out the theory of the law of the jungle. And thanks to the feminist movement i.e. the freedoms economically, socially, and sexually, everyone has more choices romantically so it’s not a situation of a few dominant males attracting all the helpless, dependent females.
I wonder if anyone else buys the theory that this nation would somehow be more powerful if you took all the women out of the workplace and positions of authority, to be replaced presumably by the type of socially maladjusted men who wouldn't be working otherwise.
I wonder if anyone else buys the theory that this nation would somehow be more powerful if you took all the women out of the workplace and positions of authority, to be replaced presumably by the type of socially maladjusted men who wouldn't be working otherwise.
I wonder if anyone else buys the theory that this nation would somehow be more powerful if you took all the women out of the workplace and positions of authority, to be replaced presumably by the type of socially maladjusted men who wouldn't be working otherwise.
I'm sure there are. Most likely guys who believe that women stole their jobs.
Arti, In Europe (many places in Europe we should say) they have completely open and free sex trade. It's something Americans cannot even fathom. Model grade women selling themselves openly to middle aged men in lush resort style clubs for less then $80 an hour for sex. In Europe, the older women expect and grant permission for their middle aged husbands to have mistresses. As long as he remains her life partner, and has no children from it, she is ok with it. In Europe, nudity is no big deal. You see ads with naked people in the paper and on television. Workers get two hours for lunch and can drink wine, you can have a beer while walking down the street and not get assaulted by America's finest street thugs in blue. Women can walk the streets at 2am in most cities and not be assaulted. They do not have gang bangers and drive by shootings.
There is a lot to be said for some country's European culture. Their divorce rate is less then half of ours too.
What fairy tale did you read next? Peter Pan or Snow White?
There are some very valid reasons why men should be frustrated. It isn't fair to blame women for it... but yeah, they shouldn't necessarily blame themselves for it either.
In North America, feminism is institutionally promoted but culturally discouraged... society is moving towards equality and egalitarianism, but the culture still promotes classic patriarchy. Women are becoming more educated and qualified, but men are expected to be more capable. Most of the traditionally 'male' jobs have been replaced by robots or shipped overseas... so they end up in retail/service industries where they can't use their natural strengths and will never be able to multitask or charm as well as women... because of how they're still socialized in the education system, and because of expectations. There is still a lot of confusion over what men should be like... and I don't think women have the same confusion. They are both accepted in more traditionally 'feminine' roles in service, child care, education, health care... but there is also a universal desire to promote them as 'modern, liberated women' who ascend to positions of power in various professional fields. If men were being promoted in retail, health care, education and service industries as much as women were promoted in professional fields, there might not be a problem... but it isn't happening.
In Scandinavia, it is perfectly acceptable for men to be more sensitive and open and take on more 'feminine' roles... but in North America, not so much-- which is why you have a lot of bitterness, frustration and venom, which of course just breeds more of the same.
Women are generally more educated and it's getting so that they are in far better positions to be the breadwinners, but they still want men who make more money, who are dominant, etc. I think this expectation might be changing, but men still get hassled a lot more if they're not being the provider and there is still a lot more social pressure to outearn and outwork and outdo their girlfriends, otherwise they're considered worthless. The irony here being that the feminists are more likely to embrace the idea of a more sensitive, nurturing male whereas MRAs and such want to cast feminists as hateful lesbians who hate everything associated with men (which is only true in some very radical, very limited cases).
And really, whenever you get a guy expressing his frustrations, instead of comforting him or trying to support him, he usually just gets blamed for his own inadequacies and told to 'man up' or something.
And without fail, you get some guy piping in saying they've got a great job, making money, if I can do it why can't you, etc. etc. etc... but yeah, it's really not so easy and I don't get why people would rather blame individuals instead of what they know to be a corrupt, non-egalitarian and willfully unfair system.
It's not so inconceivable that some guys might be frustrated by it all. It would do them a lot more good to help them work out their frustrations or try to build bridges as opposed to trying to make them feel bad about who they are, or feel inadequate because they're not the hypersocial, dynamic, confident, successful 'ideal' man.
I strongly agree that, culturally, we are at a crossroads regarding men's roles, and that this causes stress for a lot of men, especially young men.
It would be neat if more men would take it upon themselves to study how previous groups remade themselves when their social roles changed. Women in the 1970s, for example. That way guys would not feel so alone with the problem.
Some of the young men on this forum seem to actually think that the freedom of women was just 'given' to them by society. They don't know that women died for those rights.
I don't think men will have to die for the right to be more emotionally open . But I do think they will have to do the hard work of claiming it for themselves.
It just amazes me the way some men, unsatisfied with the trajectory of their lives (professionally, economically, socially, sexually), feel the deep-seated need to find some scapegoat for their own shortcomings and frustrations.
Does it amaze you when women do this? Or do you feel that they don't?
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. But I do think they will have to do the hard work of claiming it for themselves.
