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You guys are so full of it! Women go for stable guys who are into commitment. Some will make the first move on the shy guys, even shy nerdy guys. Few women "settle" for guys not willing to provide commitment. Some women aren't into commitment themselves, but that's not "settling". Total nonsense you're posting. Did you get this from another men's blog?
My company hires a lot of part time and temporary college students. I have been at my job for over 20 years and 98% of those employees, both male and female, have married and had families during or after their employment. Actually I am the only single/divorced person at my job. All of my friends that are my age are happily married and my younger friends are most all in relationships.
Perhaps I'm just lucky that I don't live in an area where 58% of the women are prostitutes.
Overall I think there is a lot more freedom in relationships. People don't need to follow the rigid "1950s" get married, have kids, stay with person forever model. People can live together instead, they can date same sex partners, they don't have to stick around with an abusive partner, they don't even have to be monogamous. And people no longer need to feel like social parahs for not getting married or for loving a person of the "wrong race" or "wrong sex."
But like with any freedom, the more of it you have, the more risk you have. It's the flip side of the coin: freedom/security. The question is, which do you think is better? Personally, I tend to go for freedom.
As for the issues of cheating, selfishness, what have you... that come with relationships. People have always been people (not angels) as someone pointed out. I suspect it's just our modern world and modern communication--we hear more about things that have always been there. Back in the day, you didn't have TV talk shows parading people and their problems, internet message boards where people voiced their issues, etc. Just because you hear more about it, doesn't mean it was never there before. It just means people hid things and didn't act on them (probably because of the lack of freedom and fear of judgement).
Last edited by jillabean; 04-30-2014 at 08:22 AM..
In english, as you know, the sentence 'Women ask men out' can have two meanings:
1) 'Some women ask some men out, as a general statement'.
2) 'All women ask men out, always'.
I took R4T to mean the first, and you took her to mean the second. Which seems kind of goofy to me.
I can tell you 'It snows in the winter,' but that doesn't mean it snows every day, in every climate. It means that winter snow is, generally, a thing that happens. Same with women asking men out. It happens. Possibly not in Alabama.
There are more than simply those two meanings. A possible third meaning is "women, as a general rule, ask men out", for example. You and I can get into the grammatical semantics all day, but suffice to say, Ruth and I go back and forth on this quite a bit. I obviously didn't interpret the second meaning that you suggested as I followed it up with "Exceptions always exist".
In fact, she accused highlife for being "full of it" by using the exact same phrasing. Equally possible that there is a "grammar problem" there as well, no?
I appreciate you trying to find a neutral balance here, but I assure you that it isn't the case.
Arti, In Europe (many places in Europe we should say) they have completely open and free sex trade. It's something Americans cannot even fathom. Model grade women selling themselves openly to middle aged men in lush resort style clubs for less then $80 an hour for sex. In Europe, the older women expect and grant permission for their middle aged husbands to have mistresses. As long as he remains her life partner, and has no children from it, she is ok with it. In Europe, nudity is no big deal. You see ads with naked people in the paper and on television. Workers get two hours for lunch and can drink wine, you can have a beer while walking down the street and not get assaulted by America's finest street thugs in blue. Women can walk the streets at 2am in most cities and not be assaulted. They do not have gang bangers and drive by shootings.
There is a lot to be said for some country's European culture. Their divorce rate is less then half of ours too.
Yes, Europe has a more mature attitude toward many things related to sexuality.
But, clearly, it can also be as hypocritical as we in the US can be. It's not surprising that you're impressed with this kind of arrangement you mention in your post, because it would serve men very well. I'm curious, though: would you think this was so wonderful if older men were to grant permission for their wives to have men on the side? I mean, just so long as she were to remain HIS life partner?
I'm not impressed. Though I DO NOT feel the slightest bit sorry for any woman who would choose to live in such an inequitable arrangement, equal opportunities for both parties would be more mature. Better yet, how about if people who think that on-the-side action is their inalienable right simply renounce traditional marriage altogether? Not only would they save themselves and others a lot of frustration and pain, they wouldn't make a mockery of marriage, either.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: if you KNOW that monogamy is NOT for you, then DO NOT GET MARRIED simply because you're too scared to remain single and live alone.
In addition, people need to get rid of this notion that one must be married or even to live with a partner in order to raise happy, healthy, well-adjusted children and to be able to enjoy a family life. It just isn't so. One can enjoy a rich, fulfilling family life without having to play "house" or to pretend faithfulness. There are plenty of THESE kinds of open arrangements in Europe, too, because many people realize that "marriage" is too often nothing more than a pretense of "respectability." I fail to see how an authentic, dual-household family configuration like this is less acceptable than the one you tout in your post.
Last edited by newdixiegirl; 04-30-2014 at 09:55 AM..
Most of you have made good points, I think I should mention, I never EVER though there was a point in time where relationships were perfect. I am fully aware people have always done those things since the dawn of time. As I said before it my just be in the areas I have been it, it just seemed like it was getting worse to me. I will hear about it constantly from the people around, not just on social media.
Also, I will say I didn't really know much about how difficult it was in the past for marriages and the punishments involved. I have heard that people were not allowed to get divorced 50 years ago, I don't know how true that is though. Compared to then, we do have more freedom than they did years ago.
Most of you have made good points, I think I should mention, I never EVER though there was a point in time where relationships were perfect. I am fully aware people have always done those things since the dawn of time. As I said before it my just be in the areas I have been it, it just seemed like it was getting worse to me. I will hear about it constantly from the people around, not just on social media.
Also, I will say I didn't really know much about how difficult it was in the past for marriages and the punishments involved. I have heard that people were not allowed to get divorced 50 years ago, I don't know how true that is though. Compared to then, we do have more freedom than they did years ago.
Since you are in your early 20's and still in college - I'm curious as to what your time frame is for this decline in relationships. 5 years? 10 years? Did you really observe many relationships and understand them when you were 12 or 13? This just seems a really odd conclusion for someone your age to come to since you really have very limited knowledge of relationships in general. Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, you also have almost no first hand relationship experience. So, what are you basing your assumptions on?
Since you are in your early 20's and still in college - I'm curious as to what your time frame is for this decline in relationships. 5 years? 10 years? Did you really observe many relationships and understand them when you were 12 or 13? This just seems a really odd conclusion for someone your age to come to since you really have very limited knowledge of relationships in general. Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, you also have almost no first hand relationship experience. So, what are you basing your assumptions on?
I started paying close attention when I was about 15 or 16 a little while after my parents had split. I thought it didn't have a big impact on me, but I suppose it did. I didn't really hear too much about other relationships until I was about 20. Whenever I would talk a friend of mine, they would always have another story to tell about what was going in their relationship and things like that. In my experience most of the guys that would approach me were the type to keep other girls on the side. The people around would openly talk about their lives and how they would often do this and even while WITH a partner. Could've just been joking around but I take things like that very seriously.
I think the reason why I thought things were different a while ago is because I saw a lot of older couples, like couples who were together for 40 years or longer. My neighbor is one of those people, so it was natural for me to assume. I understand what you mean, it would be weird for me to think this way at my age. I don't think age really matters, anyone can become aware of a lot of things at young ages.
AKBoy: in Europe the women "granting permission" (as you put it) for their middle-aged husbands to have mistresses have guys on the side, too. And the 2 hour lunch is history in some parts of Europe. In parts of Europe, women aren't safe on the streets even in broad daylight; stranger rape is a growing problem. Random shootings have become a problem in Sweden, of all places, not sure about elsewhere. Please get yourself a reality check.
You and that other guy are getting real bad at selective reading. You need to read my post again and do so more slowly. The part in parenthesis, something about "many places in Europe" meaning not all places in Europe.
Furthermore, two other posters on this thread have also suggestion my same findings about mistresses being accepted and such.
I'm not condoning these acts, in that post and the one you and college Joe or whatever his name was, I'm actually pointing those things out as reasons why relationship quality has declined in my opinion. We've accepted an "anything and everything goes" mentality and I feel it has made relationships less valuable. I'm not promoting these activities as you and a few others seem to think I am.
I started paying close attention when I was about 15 or 16 a little while after my parents had split. I thought it didn't have a big impact on me, but I suppose it did. I didn't really hear too much about other relationships until I was about 20. Whenever I would talk a friend of mine, they would always have another story to tell about what was going in their relationship and things like that. In my experience most of the guys that would approach me were the type to keep other girls on the side. The people around would openly talk about their lives and how they would often do this and even while WITH a partner. Could've just been joking around but I take things like that very seriously.
I think the reason why I thought things were different a while ago is because I saw a lot of older couples, like couples who were together for 40 years or longer. My neighbor is one of those people, so it was natural for me to assume. I understand what you mean, it would be weird for me to think this way at my age. I don't think age really matters, anyone can become aware of a lot of things at young ages.
But when making a statement about how relationships are compared to how they were - age DOES matter. You simply do not have enough life experience and you have not been around long enough to draw this conclusion.
But when making a statement about how relationships are compared to how they were - age DOES matter. You simply do not have enough life experience and you have not been around long enough to draw this conclusion.
All right.
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