Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm surprised (but then again not) by all the harsh commentary about self culling, Darwin, misfits, etc. Some people tend to not be deep thinkers at all.
The OP noted a couple of things.
The first thing mentioned had zero to do with initial desirability / ability to attract and everything to do with risk management.
From a simple risk management perspective, marriage and to an extent even LTRs are really dumb to enter into. Try it, do the thought experiment, apply a corporate risk management methodology and see what you conclude.
What I find most interesting is the level of shaming and name calling I see any time someone asks or posts about men opting out of dating, marriage or women.
Most people have a desire to be loved. For that reason, most people - men and women - will continue to date, have relationships, get married. The ones that have no desire for love are making the best decision for everyone to opt out of dating and relationships. There's nothing wrong with that - they are doing what is best for them.
Personally, I'm more worried about women "taking their ball, and going home", than men. There was a hugely popular thread recently on the Retirement subforum, about older women (widowed, divorced or never-married) who find male pursuers to be more of a nuisance than a boon. The more women who do this, the fewer dating-opportunities remain for those men who remain in pursuit of a relationship. Even if these self-segregating women are "marginal", there is a cascading effect, wherein the less-desirable women who do remain in the market, become more prized, from scarcity.
My impression is that it's actually the women who are quietly exiting the dating market, while their male counterparts are shrill blowhards who make bold claims, but who remain very much interested in garnering female attention.
Until a couple of generations ago, a man with appealing qualities on paper – but coarse personality and stunted social skills – could trade on his passive advantages, securing a spouse. Today this is generally not possible, outside of fringe-conservative groups, and some immigrant (mostly Middle Eastern/South Asian) subcultures.
As I see it, the problem isn't that society is becoming somehow tilted "towards women", but that for myriad reasons, salesmanship and personal appeal are becoming more important than hard-skills… whether we're talking about romantic relationships or promotion in the office. And whereas one can learn office-oriented human relations skills through workplace practice, thereby eventually succeeding in one's career, there really isn't a comparable scheme for mastering interpersonal relations in the social setting.
Good point. Which is why for many college-graduates, who move to blue-collar/rural areas, having a good education and a good job is actually a disadvantage in local dating.
Sorry for quoting out of context, but I couldn't resist... I hear that there were lots of dating-opportunities for men in the US in 1866, in Western Europe in 1919, and more or less worldwide in 1946.
There probably will be again in the 2030s ... in a big way. But watch out for those mutations.
In this day and age, we see all kinds of stories about men being rejected for all sorts of superfluous reasons, often by women who in years past would have at least considered the man. Women clearly have the upper hand in the legal system, and in the general dating market. Society is clearly becoming more liberal, and tilting its preferences toward women.
Really? Where do you hear these stories? I certainly don't hear them. You must hang in a different crowd. So please speak for yourself. I am not part or your "we".
I've spent time researching it, the only benefit that you can't get unless married at least ten yrs is social security benefits if one spouse dies and made a lot more money than the other the other can claim the difference. The other stuff can be dealt with by drawing up legal docs such as living wills, power of attorney etc etc etc.
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,365 posts, read 2,150,243 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation
In this day and age, we see all kinds of stories about men being rejected for all sorts of superfluous reasons, often by women who in years past would have at least considered the man. Women clearly have the upper hand in the legal system, and in the general dating market. Society is clearly becoming more liberal, and tilting its preferences toward women.
Will many men simply opt out of the dating/marriage going forward in the near term, say, five to ten years?
Maybe.
I'm wondering whatever happened to love?
It seems to me that there are so many people - both men and women - putting more emphasis in archaic and even Victorian era conventions like, are we both college graduates, is he/she in a compatible socio-economic strata, etc, that love is simply not on the menu.
I know women that are only interested in seeing men on weekends for much the same reasons - protecting their assets.
It's funny, reminds me of what a business associate once said to me about taking on a partner. A partner is someone that simply wants in your pockets.
Is love now a convention enjoyed only by the poor and disenfranchised these days?
I've never had luck asking women out irl or online. I'll admit though a lot of that has to do with where I am in life. I'm 24, I have depression and anxiety disorders (which I take meds for and have under control), I don't have a job, I've never learned how to drive, and I live at my parents. I've had jobs, but they've all been minimum wage jobs. And I didn't save money at them. I've been more content just partying. So a lot of my problems are just that, my problems. It's also stuff I can still fix. I'm a decently good looking guy, a genuinely nice person, and very honest. I just don't have much else to offer to a woman at this point in my life.
There's no way I'm giving up on finding love though. Some days it's frustrating, but than I realize I gotta change things in my life if I want to find a relationship. I think people put to much pressure on being a certain way by a certain age. Things have changed so much in the last 100-150 years. Humans live significantly longer on average. I believe in the US the average person lives to 78, and some live way longer than that. Even in the early 1900's the average American only lived on average to age 50, which is pretty crazy. So I feel like nowadays, you're still in the prime of your life in your 30's and 40's.
So I don't hold anything against mgtow guys, but I'm not personally willing to just give up. Life's a marathon, not a sprint.
Here is a 24 year old man who displays far more insight and maturity than the VAST majority of the 20-something boys (and some much older than that) who post here whining about dating. Take note, fellas, this is the way to approach your predicaments rather than blaming everyone and everything else for your issues.
I'm surprised (but then again not) by all the harsh commentary about self culling, Darwin, misfits, etc. Some people tend to not be deep thinkers at all.
The OP noted a couple of things.
The first thing mentioned had zero to do with initial desirability / ability to attract and everything to do with risk management.
From a simple risk management perspective, marriage and to an extent even LTRs are really dumb to enter into. Try it, do the thought experiment, apply a corporate risk management methodology and see what you conclude.
That was basically what I was trying to get at. I have a family member who is a $500k+ annual earner. He will easily lose a million dollars on poor relationship decisions within five years.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I certainly don't hear them. You must hang in a different crowd. So please speak for yourself. I am not part or your "we". 
