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1. The Faking of Orgasms/Climax's..Ice Princesses my hat is off to all of you , and you know who you are.
Ok, I know you think you're being funny but 1) if a woman fakes an orgasm it's not because she's an ice princess, it's usually because the guy she's with is a dolt who doesn't know a thing about female sexuality, or doesn't care, and/or is such an egoist that if she doesn't have an "orgasm" he will sulk, pout, blame her, or get angry. And 2)women who fake orgasms aren't doing ANYONE any favors, men or women.
People are people. They will follow whatever trends and structures are fimilar to them and not even realize they are doing it.
Most people have no reason to question their actions or motivations for doing something unless it is challenged in some way.
People will change their behaviors when an outside influence challenges their perspective. Instead of working with what we have to work with we reform what "it" is so we can gain favor from it and have a structure for our own behaviors to be rationalized on.
I think a large number of people "going their own way" has a lot to do with changes happening in over all social structure and those questions that naturally come with any change to something we once perceived as "normal"
When we start separating ourselves and treat our entire gender as its own special snowflake to be cared for, you're already separating yourself from wanting the same forms of equal to the other. The "differences" we may have suddenly become our crutches and attempting to see equals becomes a pecking competition for who has something better or worse than the other.
Man or woman...this behavior is gross.
To bring his all back around...
I don't think this is a gender thing AT ALL, I think both sides as people are changing their outlook on what "normal" is. They are living in a world that presents them with questions and they are attempting to answer them.
Last edited by rego00123; 02-08-2016 at 12:17 AM..
Yes - please don't confuse guys who are in the MGTOW movement with single guys like me who are dating women, but still have 0 interest in marriage or starting a family.
If anything, we will likely see more guys like you than a rise in non-women seeking MGTOW guys. I myself have two late 30 something relatives who are very successful men, had plenty of gfs and hookups during their youth, and they still haven't been married or reproduced. The oldest one who is now almost forty has had pretty stable relationships the last seven or so years with just a few women. He has said he now wants to have a kid of his own, and the last two women he dated had older kids of their own. The other one is still heavily involved in the social scene, has dates with women, but doesn't seem to want to commit to anything other than casual.
It is interesting to read about the older women going WGTOW. I see a huge change sweeping the country in how we view human sexuality, and I wonder if such a movement will change how we view prostitution. If men in their 50-70s still want sex, but more and more older women are done with men, will people get sick of these guys constantly having to be arrested for visiting prostitutes? Will the laws in most states stay the same and these guys just make trips to Nevada for sex? Or, will the older generations of the future (people who are in or around their 30s now), just bring technology along and use things like Tinder and such and find casual sex?
Should be interesting to see where this goes. A society can only maintain itself by procreating in a smart way. If the productive class starts having kids out-of-wedlock, or now kids at all, traditional US life as we know it will likely dramatically change.
I have a serious question. If you really did go your own way and it's been made pretty clear here that the other men here don't agree with you and the rest of the people here are women with whom you really don't want to interact. Then why post here and keep coming back? What's the agenda? What goal are you hoping to accomplish by telling men and women who are in a forum to discuss their relationships that you don't want to date or marry?
For me, it was the title of this thread that caught my attention. Sounded like it might be worth a visit. Then I saw some misperceptions about MTGOW and decided to read the entire thread as best as I could. If people respond to my post here, it may cause me to stay. That’s why. Quite prosaic reasons, don’t you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkered24
I suspect the vocal minority that pushes MGTOW in a "relationships" forum is likely someone who is not confident or happy in their decision to go their own way, feels they are there as a victim by circumstance and not by true choice, and tries to feel better about it by placing blame elsewhere.
Someone mentioned this is a forum for relationships, not anti-relationships, but are the moderators not free to move off-topic threads to a better-fitting forum? I don’t know. Maybe here is the best fit as it brought all of us together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetiebelle
But isn't that something that you would know before you got married to someone? If you're dating someone and they have wildly different financial goals than you do, or if you don't agree on children then you don't marry that person (and if you haven't talked about that stuff you have no business getting married.) Or guys say that a divorce would hurt only the man financially. I'm always confused by these emotional hypothetical stories that some of you dudes come up with, as if a bad relationship is something that just happens to you without your input or consent.
Sometimes, facts unfold at inconvenient times. Also, you’re not accounting for out-and-out deception where an engaged person doesn’t reveal until some point after the wedding important things that should have been disclosed before the wedding but were withheld to ensure that a wedding took place. This is not uncommon. Like hidden debt, for example. Then, once married, it’s a new ball game with a new set of rules and the deceptive party knew that would happen. Notice I have kept my explanation sex-neutral even though your question was asked of men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterflyfish
On one hand, I think it's great that MGTOW offers a place for these men to go,where they can meet other men who have been through similar painful experiences, and they are given support and encouragement. I see it as sort of a lonely hearts club for men. Everyone needs to have a sense of belonging to something!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterflyfish
I support the concept of putting aside the things in your life that are not working and building a new life that does work for you, even if it's outside what our society considers the norm.
On the other hand, my concern is that they appear to dwell in negativity and blaming others and never move past that. Their wounds don't heal. They only festure and and MGTOW adds fuel to the fire, when they are vulnerable, only adding to their unhappy mental and emotional state.
Do men who belong to MGTOW ever heal and evolve into happy people, who are capable of love?
Can you imagine what it must be like to living an entire life carrying around that level of bitterness and hostility? It must be a living hell and a terribly heavy burden. It makes me shudder to think about it.
This post appears to be the most charitable view of MGTOW in this thread thus far from an "outsider". It is sometimes asked why do MGTOW keep talking about women if they are going their own way. To that question, I would like to offer these thoughts:
People shouldn't assume that GYOW is an instant thing and that all discussion about women stops and that men just quietly disperse into the night, never again to mention women to each other. Likely many men do go hermit while we see only the men who talk online. Men talk about stuff. Some men more than others. Men learn what's been happening to themselves by listening and conversing with other men. Men want to assist other men. It takes a while to deprogram from a lifetime of brainwashing. Men learn a lot by hanging around and reading what other men say. To learn how others manage and managed. Men themselves are ok with what forms this self-education takes, are ok with the differing rates of speed that men participate, and are ok with the knowledge that others are watching and may be misunderstanding or even criticizing.
MGTOW is not a club with rules or a structure or an organized thing with officers. Someone mentioned in this thread why doesn’t MGTOW have a scholarship to award. That would be as doable as asking the people who have randomly posted in this thread to create a scholarship. MGTOW is an idea and a way to share experiences and information. MGTOW are anyone who has decided to repoint his life away from the existing marital dynamic or male/female dynamic. Some of these men are married, some are gay (gay men have married and divorced women, or otherwise correctly identify as men having had bad experiences), and AFAIK most MGTOW are unattached including divorced. All have left behind in their rear view mirror the bad results of their interactions with women. This does not mean any have necessarily abandoned women, only that they have changed the rules of their personal behavior with women as a result of prior experiences and the experiences of other men. But, yes, that often means they are done with women. It’s whatever each guy decides for himself. He goes the way he decides. He goes his own way.
Thank you.
Last edited by sylvianfisher; 02-09-2016 at 04:13 AM..
Every man is different and has different life experiences, OP.
This topic can't really be scientifically studied or proven because it is too broad and NOT worth the effort or money to be spent to actually find out whether "more men will go out of their way to not date/marry". Plus, people change over time therefore the variables will never remain constant.
Furthermore, those who choose not to date/marry can simply use escorts/prostitutes in order to receive companionship/pleasure.
For me, it was the title of this thread that caught my attention. Sounded like it might be worth a visit. Then I saw some misperceptions about MTGOW and decided to read the entire thread as best as I could. If people respond to my post here, it may cause me to stay. That’s why. Quite prosaic reasons, don’t you think?
Someone mentioned this is a forum for relationships, not anti-relationships, but are the moderators not free to move off-topic threads to a better-fitting forum? I don’t know. Maybe here is the best fit as it brought all of us together.
Sometimes, facts unfold at inconvenient times. Also, you’re not accounting for out-and-out deception where an engaged person doesn’t reveal until some point after the wedding important things that should have been disclosed before the wedding but were withheld to ensure that a wedding took place. This is not uncommon. Like hidden debt, for example. Then, once married, it’s a new ball game with a new set of rules and the deceptive party knew that would happen. Notice I have kept my explanation sex-neutral even though your question was asked of men.
This post appears to be the most charitable view of MGTOW in this thread thus far from an "outsider". It is sometimes asked why do MGTOW keep talking about women if they are going their own way. To that question, I would like to offer these thoughts:
People shouldn't assume that GYOW is an instant thing and that all discussion about women stops and that men just quietly disperse into the night, never again to mention women to each other. Likely many men do go hermit while we see only the men who talk online. Men talk about stuff. Some men more than others. Men learn what's been happening to themselves by listening and conversing with other men. Men want to assist other men. It takes a while to deprogram from a lifetime of brainwashing. Men learn a lot by hanging around and reading what other men say. To learn how others manage and managed. Men themselves are ok with what forms this self-education takes, are ok with the differing rates of speed that men participate, and are ok with the knowledge that others are watching and may be misunderstanding or even criticizing.
MGTOW is not a club with rules or a structure or an organized thing with officers. Someone mentioned in this thread why doesn’t MGTOW have a scholarship to award. That would be as doable as asking the people who have randomly posted in this thread to create a scholarship. MGTOW is an idea and a way to share experiences and information. MGTOW are anyone who has decided to repoint his life away from the existing marital dynamic or male/female dynamic. Some of these men are married, some are gay (gay men have married and divorced women, or otherwise correctly identify as men having had bad experiences), and AFAIK most MGTOW are unattached including divorced. All have left behind in their rear view mirror the bad results of their interactions with women. This does not mean any have necessarily abandoned women, only that they have changed the rules of their personal behavior with women as a result of prior experiences and the experiences of other men. But, yes, that often means they are done with women. It’s whatever each guy decides for himself. He goes the way he decides. He goes his own way.
Thank you.
+1 perfect description of MGTOW. I think a lot of people are calling the movement a lonely virgins club. Im 27 and probably qualify somewhat as MGTOW. Yet Im fairly successful at attracting women and have had multiple long term relationships myself. I just cant justify marriage after seeing my father and all their friends fathers being absolutely destroyed by feminist leaning court systems (though I hear this is changing). I also dont really love kids either.
Most MGTOWs are single heterosexuals but like you said some are gay, married. Some are celibate, some only have sex when they pay for it, some probably are closer to pick up artists and do a lot of short term dating. The movement is more about deprogramming from the typical relationship/marriage/kids/white knighting (ie chivalry to women, paying for women who are now "liberated") than anything.
I think economics and overpopulation are finally putting the squeeze on peoples ability to grow large families though as well. Families are likely less stable when both parents work non-stop and are desperately working to stay afloat. So having the kids stay home with the mom while the dad works is less and less feasible. Id conjecture economic struggling adds to the divorce rate as well.
Oh well. The world has too many people as is. If we want to keep social security alive we'll need to keep up sensible immigration.
In this day and age, we see all kinds of stories about men being rejected for all sorts of superfluous reasons, often by women who in years past would have at least considered the man. Women clearly have the upper hand in the legal system, and in the general dating market. Society is clearly becoming more liberal, and tilting its preferences toward women.
Will many men simply opt out of the dating/marriage going forward in the near term, say, five to ten years?
If women didn't opt out when things were tilted toward men then why would men opt out now? I think most people are driven to pair up and have a relationship. A few aren't and that's their right. Although I don't really think things are titled towards either sex. I think it's all individual. In which case men and women who think things are tilted against them have always opted out. In the past they were called lifelong bachelors or old maids. Today they are more accepted or at least they aren't labeled.
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