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I agree that "It's not womankind's job to devirginate" the guys that are not appealing to them. But I think most women do not understand the strong desire/need for sex in most guys in their late teens/early twentieth. They don't understand that if they are constantly rejected by women, this could create extreme anger and depression and a desire for revenge(for some). I think most women find this either untrue or amusing. This still does not mean that women own sex to anyone they don't like of course. It does mean that they should not take advantage or make fun of desperate guys
Yes exactly and this job was historically a safe outlet for the shy, unpopular guys. Unfortunately, in the US, religious zealots together with men hating feminist mafia chose to make this a crime. Same for some Scandinavian countries ruled by the feminists. In most other places, it is still a reliable option for the desperate, lonely guys. It is a lot healthier than taking anti depressants that are mostly placebos anyway. Dig?
Um, most of the feminists that I know personally, are all for safe, regulated, legal prostitution. And every sex worker I know is a feminist. Every single one.
I think it's more the country's Puritanical shame baggage around all things sex, that drives the criminality of it here. I have heard some women say that they believed that since prostitution leads to trafficking and exploitation, it should be prevented at all costs and should therefore not be legal. But more reasonable souls (hi!) liken it to pot prohibition. When you have something that is illegal, it can easily then be bundled and connected with other criminal enterprise. It's being done out of sight, so if you're a black market dealer of one prohibited commodity, why not do business if a few others while you're at it? Pot was only a "gateway drug" insofar as because it was illegal, those using it did business with drug dealers, who could also sell them other things, and were exposed to people who did all sorts of junk. Prostitution is probably much more conducive to trafficking and exploitation under the "illegal/black market" model, than under the "legal/regulated" one. So...the women I've heard from who thought what they thought, I would argue that their hearts are in the right place, but they're wrong.
And frankly? It does not by any means require a man to be a virgin, for him to get angry at women or any other segment of the populace to the point of madness and violence. In fact I'd say I've seen hardcore misogynists who simply had bad breakups, who were far worse than those who just lacked experience. And the 50+ year old virgin I knew, liked and respected women quite a lot. He may have been a suicide risk in his younger years, but he wouldn't have hurt anyone else, ever. I don't like the idea that anyone would assume that being an older virgin means being dangerous. Being a hateful d-bag is dangerous. I've seen posters here, who frankly, if they said such things to me in person, I'd be afraid of them...many (most?) were not virgins at all.
I think most women do not understand the strong desire/need for sex in most guys in their late teens/early twentieth. They don't understand that if they are constantly rejected by women, this could create extreme anger and depression and a desire for revenge(for some).
That doesn't mean the impulses that arise from that anger are correct.
If their desire to have sex is SO strong, but some aren't getting it, then men need a new definition of masculinity so they don't think that anger and lashing out in violence are their only options.
That doesn't mean the impulses that arise from that anger are correct.
If their desire to have sex is SO strong, but some aren't getting it, then men need a new definition of masculinity so they don't think that anger and lashing out in violence are their only options.
Exactly.
People get angry for all KINDS of reasons. Some of those reasons are a source of sincere frustration. That doesn't mean we can all become violent in response. Not getting laid is not the only ongoing frustration a person can face. It is one of many, many, many possible sources of sincere frustration a person of any age, either gender, and any lifestyle and situation can experience.
Unleashing homicidal fury in response is not okay...not in this situation, not in any situation of frustration because people just won't "give" us what we "want," particularly if what we "want" is literally the use of their bodies. The use and then the discarding of, BTW. Just nope. NOT an excuse. Sorry, no way.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdieBelle
That doesn't mean the impulses that arise from that anger are correct.
If their desire to have sex is SO strong, but some aren't getting it, then men need a new definition of masculinity so they don't think that anger and lashing out in violence are their only options.
This is part of what "toxic masculinity" entails. Yup.
Most countries that had gun violence problems saw definite improvements after adapting strict gun laws limiting automatic weapons. Including Australia which culture is somewhat similar to the US South. But of course United States is so exceptional that we are just going to watch school kids periodically killed by crazy people who have easy access to the automatic or semi automatic weapons.
Really? Part of being an American is an ability to buy several automatic weapons that can shoot and kill hundreds of people in a few seconds? No one is talking about banning all weapons or hunting rifles. And the founding of our nation happened a few centuries ago. Circumstances changed a bit in the last few centuries. Why is the right to own horse and buggy not scared any more.
And the scary part is that he can easily buy an automatic weapon in a gun show. Or even in a store in a number of states. Don't you find this situation ridiculous?
All I am saying w/ regard to the gun law debate being tricky, is I know enough gun people to know that they feel it's a sacred part of their identity as Americans. Personally, I would be perfectly content if very strict gun laws went into place, but I also know there would be howls of protest from many quarters, and I...well, I guess I get where they are coming from, even if I don't share their sentiments. But again, that just ain't me. I don't own a gun, don't want a gun, have never fired a gun, and have never wished there had been a gun in my presence at any time in my life. At 14 I was raped by a much older man, I did not wish then and do not wish in retrospect, that someone had been there to shoot him. If anything, that would have made the whole thing even more traumatic for me. I am not a fan.
That doesn't mean I am deaf to the arguments of those who are. It's their thing. I get that. I don't think that weighs up against the lives of everyone who dies by gun violence in the US on a daily basis.
And yes, my ex has found loopholes even, that allow him to own high capacity magazines. He has an AK47, and a couple of other military type rifles (again, I'm no gun person, so ???) and a shotgun, and a handgun. He's well trained, and used to tell me and our sons things like, "These are not toys. You never draw a gun on someone, unless you are prepared to shoot them." and blahblahyaddayadda. Yet when I broke up with him, he had a loaded gun trained on me for some 10 hours or so, as he ranted at me in the garage. And following that, he slept with his (loaded) AK next to him in bed, and carried it around the house because it "made him feel safe." Somehow those respectable, responsible, well trained (former military) types...yeah, it can all go out the window when a harsh life situation threatens their sanity.
Yet. He can totally buy a gun. Any time he wants. Anywhere.
You know why I didn't call the cops? As people here told me to, when all of this was going down? Because he hadn't killed anybody and they would not have held him forever, and when he got out, there would have been nowhere I could hide. And he is sniper trained. If they took his guns, he'd borrow a friend's. If he'd been arrested and got out, he wouldn't emerge all contrite and reformed, he'd have come out swinging, angry.
So, for all the many many many women who are lied to in order to put out, then are dumped and literally heartbroken and perhaps left with an STD, you know what...that's a source of frustration too, since we're talking about frustrations. And it's as old as time. For many cultures and generations, a woman winding up pregnant and unmarried based on such lies and trickery might be an outcast. Heck, in some cases and time periods, she might literally be killed.
Today, probably not, certainly in the U.S. But being lied to, her body used and then thrown away and her heart broken...oh geez, that probably only happens a few thousand times a day in any given culture. So...it's understandable if those women unleash a spray of bullets at a school?
Probably not. Right?
I mean how often do you hear of something like that happening?
Really, I am not buying the "we should all be understanding of men killing strangers because not getting laid is frustrating" argument.
Indeed, it's...well...super, super scary that anyone WOULD argue such a thing. I am just being real here.
I understood what you were getting at and it's the same reason I often feel the need to bring some people teetering on the Red Pill edge back to reality.
Because if not the consequences can be scary. They HAVE been deadly, in the past, on a few occasions. I don't think there's info on this particular tragedy yet. However, I get what you were saying, and I think a lot of us here do and I believe that's why we post here in the first place. For that percentage that COULD get help instead of swallowing extremism views, and then hate building until it's dangerous.
But maybe this is the extreme end of the concern I expressed in the other thread. First, I think the vast majority of men who complain on the internet are harmless. It takes a lot more than what we might do right or wrong here to turn RbccL's shy awkward acquaintance into someone dangerous, if he happened to stumble in here. It doesn't work that way.
I also doubt that anything we do right or wrong here will persuade someone who is truly delusional about himself or the world, or both, to quit being delusional. We don't create and can't prevent the monsters who shoot children or night club patrons or children or women in a gym. It doesn't work that way. And while their behavior is terrible, they are rare, so it's not like they visit this site regularly, or at all.
I do worry about the guys in the middle who do visit this site. The ones who are already a little edgy and angry when they come here, but somewhat functional. I don't think those guys turn into monsters if they weren't headed that way based on anything we say or do. We aren't that powerful. I do think we might influence those men who come here toward better or worse outcomes though. A better outcome being that they get some help, or on rare occasions that we're the source of that help. A worse outcome has them heading not so much toward being lethally dangerous, but toward being a bigger drag on the people in their off line lives.
Which is why when I notice that the guys we interact with here often get angrier and nastier over time, I wonder?
Many of these virgins (and killers) also seem to be on the spectrum, diagnosed or undiagnosed. I think there needs to be greater effort to identify these kids earlier so they can learn coping mechanisms and appropriate social behavior so they can get what they want/need out of life.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,981,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homina12
And while their behavior is terrible, they are rare, so it's not like they visit this site regularly, or at all.
They're not all that rare. Not in the U.S. We just had what, our 18th school shooting this year? We have something big like this multiple times a year.
They're rare in the rest of the world. They aren't that rare here. They're shockingly common.
No, not all fit the profile we're talking about, but a shocking amount do. Loner. Didn't make friends. Antisocial. Identifies with fringe ideologies. Loves their guns. Others know him to be weird and very potentially dangerous. The person snaps.
Indeed, it's...well...super, super scary that anyone WOULD argue such a thing.
Absolutely. You would think (hope??!) that the minute they start typing along those lines, common sense would kick in.
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