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using money to control someone else is a really nasty relationship dynamic, whether parent-child, or husband-wife.
I married into a family that did that "I use money to control you" and also the corrollary "money equates love" and it is an utterly toxic ugly environment.
is that what you want to teach your kids that relationship is about? money is a form of controlling other people?
and i have news for you, once they go to college, you are living in a fantasy world of trying to legislate "no alcohol/drugs, no moving in with GF/BF (and no 30 year old GF/BF), no getting arrested, and passing all their classes" i'm guessing you haven't had a lot of real-life experience with young people who are middle-school, high-school, and college age.
when a kid moves out to go to college they are living their own life and making their own decisions, and to try and do that for them, to try to dictate and control their lives at age 18-22 is the equivalent of keeping them an emotional cripple, rather than nourishing and fostering a mature individual capable of taking responsibility for their choices and decisions.
Kids live up to the way they are treated. Treat them like someone incapable of making decisions, deprive them of the dignity of taking responsibility for the outcome of their decisions, and guarantee it, they will live down to your expectations of them.
When it comes to minor children I think it's different. You have to control them, who else has that responsibility? My kids aren't given money to drink or buy drugs. My kids know if at age 15, I tell them to be home by 10pm, they'd better be home by 10pm.
I never understand parents who say they can't control their children, that they'll have sex at age 12, smoke and drink by age 11, go to parties and drive home drunk at age 16, when it's the parent paying for everything they do.
I'm not going to hand an 11 year old a hundred dollars and tell him to go have some fun, don't come home too late and trust a child that young to make good decisions. I believe kids need rules. I also don't believe children under age 16 need to be dating. There should be a time in their lives that they are allowed to be children and not under a lot of social pressure. To me there's nothing more pathetic than a 14 year old girl in the ER at 3 am who swallowed a bottle of tylenol "because her boyfriend dumped her".
When it comes to minor children I think it's different. You have to control them, who else has that responsibility? My kids aren't given money to drink or buy drugs. My kids know if at age 15, I tell them to be home by 10pm, they'd better be home by 10pm.
I never understand parents who say they can't control their children, that they'll have sex at age 12, smoke and drink by age 11, go to parties and drive home drunk at age 16, when it's the parent paying for everything they do.
I'm not going to hand an 11 year old a hundred dollars and tell him to go have some fun, don't come home too late and trust a child that young to make good decisions. I believe kids need rules. I also don't believe children under age 16 need to be dating. There should be a time in their lives that they are allowed to be children and not under a lot of social pressure. To me there's nothing more pathetic than a 14 year old girl in the ER at 3 am who swallowed a bottle of tylenol "because her boyfriend dumped her".
Yes but the point is that since they are "adults" at 18, you have to give them some leniency before then and some chances to make some of their own decisions. Otherwise, when they turn 18, there will be big problems.
Really, "growing up" does not happen in a single minute at midnight on a person's 18th birthday. Rather it's a process that starts at birth and continues until the age of 24-25. Some could argue that it even continues until death.
Kids need rules, but being overly strict and too overprotective can cause severe consequences too. Not allowing a child to make ANY of their own decisions until the age of 18 and then suddenly expecting them to make life-changing, life-altering decisions is a terrible way to go.
I know you didn't but I though that was kind of the point of the forum.
Of course it is. I guess I thought your comment was out of left field. I wasn't complaining that we had problems. On the contrary, I have very very few issues at all with my son....we have a fantastic relationship, and he is a great kid , very responsible - and a very happy kid at that. So obviously, what I do, works for us.
No problem though...you are free to voice your opinion as you wish.
edit: My rules are not much stricter that our state laws, by the way. Obviously they differ state-to-state.
Last edited by ChessieMom; 02-15-2009 at 09:27 AM..
Yes but the point is that since they are "adults" at 18, you have to give them some leniency before then and some chances to make some of their own decisions. Otherwise, when they turn 18, there will be big problems.
Really, "growing up" does not happen in a single minute at midnight on a person's 18th birthday. Rather it's a process that starts at birth and continues until the age of 24-25. Some could argue that it even continues until death.
Kids need rules, but being overly strict and too overprotective can cause severe consequences too. Not allowing a child to make ANY of their own decisions until the age of 18 and then suddenly expecting them to make life-changing, life-altering decisions is a terrible way to go.
Yes obviously. I think they need some time with same-sex friends before they get into dating. I believe they must be mature enough to handle rejection, to set their own rules.
There's a story out today about rising "domestic abuse" by boyfriends against girls as young as 11 and 12. These little girls are so needy that they put up with abuse, it's more important to feel "accepted" and have a boyfriend than to be without and refuse abuse. To me that's insane to allow a girl that young to be in that situation at all. I think kids need to realize that not having a boyfriend or girlfriend at all times is perfectly fine, there is no rush, that life has plenty else to offer, they need time to get to know themselves.
Yes obviously. I think they need some time with same-sex friends before they get into dating. I believe they must be mature enough to handle rejection, to set their own rules.
There's a story out today about rising "domestic abuse" by boyfriends against girls as young as 11 and 12. These little girls are so needy that they put up with abuse, it's more important to feel "accepted" and have a boyfriend than to be without and refuse abuse. To me that's insane to allow a girl that young to be in that situation at all. I think kids need to realize that not having a boyfriend or girlfriend at all times is perfectly fine, there is no rush, that life has plenty else to offer, they need time to get to know themselves.
Good lord I am so addicted to this and I have a lot I need to do...so I will have to force myself to get off of here.
But, I agree STRONGLY that kids need time with same-sex friends. This is why I've made some points on some other threads that middle schools should be single-sex. By high school, interaction with the opposite sex becomes more critical developmentally, yet same-sex friends should still be more important.
I just think that by high school the rules should be what they CAN'T do and not what they CAN do (and as long as you're paying for college this should continue with more reasonable rules through then). This I think is better to teach them how to make their own decisions.
I have to admit that most of the middle school girls who get pregnant tend to have been impregnated by older (HS) boys. So I don't know if single-sex middle schools would go too far to solve any of these issues.
Yes obviously. I think they need some time with same-sex friends before they get into dating. I believe they must be mature enough to handle rejection, to set their own rules.
There's a story out today about rising "domestic abuse" by boyfriends against girls as young as 11 and 12. These little girls are so needy that they put up with abuse, it's more important to feel "accepted" and have a boyfriend than to be without and refuse abuse. To me that's insane to allow a girl that young to be in that situation at all. I think kids need to realize that not having a boyfriend or girlfriend at all times is perfectly fine, there is no rush, that life has plenty else to offer, they need time to get to know themselves.
Wow. What kind of parents let their kids date as early as 11 and 12 years of age? And having same sex friends is very important, but I'd make sure that they were also doing activities like orchestra practice where they could also make friends with the opposite sex. I find what's lacking in some of my 20-something year old friends is the ability to have good platonic friends with the opposite sex.
Anyway, my parents often told me that my "job" as their child was to go to school and do well with my studies. And that was fine with me. My parents also showed me how interesting life could be. We went to art and science museums, I took art and music classes. I had no problems waiting until after college for romance. Sure, I had my crushes, but I was okay with not acting on them. And in high school, I had zero desire to mess with drinking, smoking or drugs, I just had other things I preferred to do. I had several good friends and my college life was very busy, too busy for having a boyfriend. And I was really keen on not getting pregnant by accident. I also knew that I didn't want to rush into a marriage as a young adult. And I didn't want my marriage to be the centerpiece of my whole life either.
Wow. What kind of parents let their kids date as early as 11 and 12 years of age? And having same sex friends is very important, but I'd make sure that they were also doing activities like orchestra practice where they could also make friends with the opposite sex. I find what's lacking in some of my 20-something year old friends is the ability to have good platonic friends with the opposite sex.
Anyway, my parents often told me that my "job" as their child was to go to school and do well with my studies. And that was fine with me. My parents also showed me how interesting life could be. We went to art and science museums, I took art and music classes. I had no problems waiting until after college for romance. Sure, I had my crushes, but I was okay with not acting on them. And in high school, I had zero desire to mess with drinking, smoking or drugs, I just had other things I preferred to do. I had several good friends and my college life was very busy, too busy for having a boyfriend. And I was really keen on not getting pregnant by accident. I also knew that I didn't want to rush into a marriage as a young adult. And I didn't want my marriage to be the centerpiece of my whole life either.
Apparently some parents do:
One in five 13-14 year olds in relationships say they know peers who have been kicked, hit, slapped, or punched by a boyfriend or girlfriend.
· More than one in three tweens in relationships know peers who have been pressured by a boyfriend/girlfriend to do things they didn't want to do.
· Two in five 11-14 year olds in relationships know friends who have been called names, put down, or insuld by cell phone, instant message, social networking sites, like MySpace and Facebook.
I believe for both boys and girls there's a period from age 12 to 15 where crushes are normal and wholesome. Infatuation from a distance.
Many people look back on their first crushes and laugh -- wonder "what was I thinking" and parents who spare them from actually dating and sexual experimentation with those first crushes do their kids a big favor.
To me 11-12 year old girls can have crushes, and it's okay and normal if they get a crush on an older boy which they often will as long as that's as far as it goes. I think 11-15 year old girls and boys going through a "giggly" phase is a good part of growing up, they shouldn't have to be all adult and serious.
One of my sons told me of a girl he was somewhat friends with at school at age 16 was crying and devastated because she found out she was pregnant and she had informed her boyfriend of 2 years. He told her "that's okay because I already dumped you, I'm going out with someone else now". So at only 16 years of age, she had been abandoned by a boy who never loved her but used her for sex and left her a single mother, not even close to a point where she could make it on her own.
Good lord I am so addicted to this and I have a lot I need to do...so I will have to force myself to get off of here.
But, I agree STRONGLY that kids need time with same-sex friends. This is why I've made some points on some other threads that middle schools should be single-sex. By high school, interaction with the opposite sex becomes more critical developmentally, yet same-sex friends should still be more important.
I just think that by high school the rules should be what they CAN'T do and not what they CAN do (and as long as you're paying for college this should continue with more reasonable rules through then). This I think is better to teach them how to make their own decisions.
I agree with that.
A guy I work with was telling me that he and his wife have absolutely no control at all over their 15 year old. She comes home at 3 am, she's often been drinking and on school nights. She absolutely won't listen to them, she dresses like a hooker. If they try to ground her, she crawls out of the window of her room. He said this has been going on for 2 years, since she was 13, she does whatever she pleases and they cannot do a thing about it. They have no clue about what kind of men/boys she is out with - but they assume not the best.
I can't imagine that. If I tell a 15 year old to be home by 10 pm, they'd better be rolling in pretty close to 10 pm.
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