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I'm looking for confirmation that the Bible is true. Just as a scientist would search for information that would prove a given theory. And when one finds such proof. Then one should really consider it. Don't you think?
Have you found any yet, other than frauds fakes and hoaxes I mean?
Sorry old bud, you have that backwards....Real archeologists do not create events...They search for REAL evidence of events, and that is generally not found in the bible. Your whole life is based on imaginary events, so you should be the last person to talk.
sanspeur, the Bible describes in detail the account of the Red Sea crossing. The evidence is all there. The crossing site was marked by two red 18 foot granit pillars. Found on those pillers are the words Mizram (Egypt), death, water, pharaoh, Edom, Yahweh, and Solomon. The road that leads to Mt. Sinia meets every detail spoken of in the Bible. From the bitter springs, to the 12 wells of Elim. Mt. Sinia itself has the altar at the base of the mountain, which the Bible tells us was put there by Moses. The largerer altar that was built by the unbelievers is also found near by. And the Saudi government even built a six foot fence around it. And one could make the arguement that those pillers were placed there by Solomon 400 years after the event. Yet, how did Solomon know that the only beach on the Gulf of Aqaba that could support two million Hebrews, and was blocked on both sides by mountains which prevented the Hebrews from escaping. Was the same location where he place those Red granit pillars. Do you think Solomon had goggle earth? Truly sanspeur, I think you so do not want to believe the Biblical account, that you have abandoned all objectivity. And any evidence that supports the Biblical account is just something you must deny, and you do this, without any evidence to back up your claim. And if my whole life was really based on imaginary events spoken of in the Bible. Then none of this evidence should really exist. Yet you ignore such evidence only because you don't want to believe the Bible. And because of that. I feel sorry for you.
sanspeur, the Bible describes in detail the account of the Red Sea crossing. The evidence is all there. The crossing site was marked by two red 18 foot granit pillars. Found on those pillers are the words Mizram (Egypt), death, water, pharaoh, Edom, Yahweh, and Solomon. The road that leads to Mt. Sinia meets every detail spoken of in the Bible. From the bitter springs, to the 12 wells of Elim. Mt. Sinia itself has the altar at the base of the mountain, which the Bible tells us was put there by Moses. The largerer altar that was built by the unbelievers is also found near by. And the Saudi government even built a six foot fence around it. And one could make the arguement that those pillers were placed there by Solomon 400 years after the event. Yet, how did Solomon know that the only beach on the Gulf of Aqaba that could support two million Hebrews, and was blocked on both sides by mountains which prevented the Hebrews from escaping. Was the same location where he place those Red granit pillars. Do you think Solomon had goggle earth? Truly sanspeur, I think you so do not want to believe the Biblical account, that you have abandoned all objectivity. And any evidence that supports the Biblical account is just something you must deny, and you do this, without any evidence to back up your claim. And if my whole life was really based on imaginary events spoken of in the Bible. Then none of this evidence should really exist. Yet you ignore such evidence only because you don't want to believe the Bible. And because of that. I feel sorry for you.
" A century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists has found no evidence which can be directly related to the Exodus narrative of an Egyptian captivity and the escape and travels through the wilderness,[18] and it has become increasingly clear that Iron Age Israel - the kingdoms of Judah and Israel - has its origins in Canaan, not Egypt:[22] the culture of the earliest Israelite settlements is Canaanite, their cult-objects are those of the Canaanite god El, the pottery remains in the local Canaanite tradition, and the alphabet used is early Canaanite. Almost the sole marker distinguishing the "Israelite" villages from Canaanite sites is an absence of pig bones, although whether this can be taken as an ethnic marker or is due to other factors remains a matter of dispute.[23]"
" A century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists has found no evidence which can be directly related to the Exodus narrative of an Egyptian captivity and the escape and travels through the wilderness,[18] and it has become increasingly clear that Iron Age Israel - the kingdoms of Judah and Israel - has its origins in Canaan, not Egypt:[22] the culture of the earliest Israelite settlements is Canaanite, their cult-objects are those of the Canaanite god El, the pottery remains in the local Canaanite tradition, and the alphabet used is early Canaanite. Almost the sole marker distinguishing the "Israelite" villages from Canaanite sites is an absence of pig bones, although whether this can be taken as an ethnic marker or is due to other factors remains a matter of dispute.[23]"
The problem with these archaeologists is that they are still living in the past century. And as usual, most of them do not believe the Biblical account. So they don't follow the clues given in the Bible. Those who have taken the time to consider the Biblical location of the Exodus, have hit paydirt. It's almost to funny. We have Red Granit pillars marking the crossing site, and placed there by King Solomon. It's almost like a lighted neon sign. Yet are expert archaeologist are still sifting sand in all the wrong locations, and saying the Exodus was just a myth. They are truly cluless. And instead of them coming to consider this wealth of evidence. They sit in their sand boxs, continually making wrong assumptions based on their wrong locations. When the evidence is sitting right at their front door, they ignore it. And then travel miles away trying to explain it away.
More conformation of the crossing can be seen if one considers the west shore of the Red Sea. Scripture tells us that the Children of Israel were trapped between the mountains and the sea. There was no avenue of escape. And those who doubt the Biblical numbers of people that were actually at the crossing, are simply those who do not believe the Bible anyway. Yet Scripture tells us, there were two million people that crossed over. Well, now we have a real problem. First we would have to have a beach large enought to support two million people. And second, it would have to be a beach that had mountains blocking the peoples escape from either side. There is only one such place that exist along the Gulf of Aqaba. And it just so happens that the beach at Nuweiba is the only one that could possibly fill the bill. This beach is not only large enought to support two million people. It is also blocked on either side by mountains which would prevent anyone from escaping. There is only one way in, and one way out. And it just so happens, this beach is located at the same location of the Red Granite pillars. Coincidence? I think not.
And of course found on those pillars are the words Mizram (Egypt), death, water, pharaoh, Edom, Yahweh, and Solomon.
Now even knowing that it was Solomon who had the pillars placed there 400 years later. How would Solomon of known, that the beach at Nuweiba was the only beach that matched the Biblical account. After all, Solomon did not have goggle earth. If this was a crime scene, someone would already be in custody. However, because it is a story from the Bible, such evidence is continually passed over and ignored. So AREQUIPA. Do you believe that the placing of those pillers in that exact location, was just a lucky guess by Solomon?
Assuming that the reading of the pillar inscription is correct, yes, I would imagine that he might well have put the pillars at a place he thought likely. The numbers of people involved are as disputable as the event itself - I'll come to that in a minute.
I have been looking a bit further and there are some who prefer the J. Musa mountain in Sinai to Al Lawz in S. Arabia. There is a suitable 'Elijah cave' there as well and I am very sceptical about that supposed altar.
The boundary markers and pillars turn out to be scatters of stones. Of course, if there are a regular series of these of the right number that would suit your view, but are there? I imagine it would be very easy to ignore a few others which did not fit the sequence or to to argue that a few missing scatters must have been removed. I don't know, but already there seems to be a degree of imagination running wild here.
"The Twelve Pillars
Cornuke and Williams discovered twelve pillars at the base of the mountain. Exodus 24:4 records that God commanded Moses to set up just such pillars. However, later investigation revealed that these pillars date from the first century AD, and are therefore not evidence for Jabal al Lawz.
Scorched Mountaintop
Cornuke: "[W]e found the top of the mountain to be thoroughly blackened, as if the rocks had been severely scorched from without. When we broke open the rocks, we found that they were actually granite rocks with a blackened "rind" and an untouched core of pure granite inside." (BASE Institute) However, geologist Dr. John Morris states that the Jebel al-Lawz rock he examined was normal metamorphic rock typical for the volcanic area it came from, and that there was nothing strange about it. (Sparks)
The Altar of the Golden Calf
Like the twelve pillars, this altar does not date from the time period of the Exodus and is therefore not evidence for Jabal al Lawz. Cornuke, however, still believes that the altar is authentic."
In case you think this site is purely debunkive (copyright on that term)
"and you shall strike the rock, and water shall come out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel" (Exodus 17:6-7). Cornuke stated: "One of the most startling discoveries at Jabal al Lawz was a massive, prominent, split rock on the west side of Jabal al Lawz, which showed evidence of gushing water from within - jagged rocks that had been smoothed off by an abundant flow of water." (BASE Institute) Skeptics have yet to provide an argument to counter this evidence."
The Search for Mount Sinai (http://www.teamroberts.org/mountsinai/jabalallawz.htm#pillars - broken link)
I can only suggest that it is a big rock, and it is split as exposed rocks in areas with hot days and freezing nights can be. The Erosion looks to be due to sand rather than water.
If one supposes that the Red Sea crossing is the gulf of Aquaba arm east of sinai, then Saudi arabia has to be the site, but, if one makes it the Gulf of suez arm, then Jebel Musa is a better candidate.
Now, I looked into the chronology because I mentioned that Ahmose was far too early for an Exodus from Pi-Ramesh, the capital of Ramesses 2 in the delta. I noted that Exodus mentions that Moses avoided going straight to Canaan via Gaza because of the fighting in Philistia. That must put the Exodus date rather later, after 1190 when the Aegean Peleset were settled on the Canaan coast by Ramesses III. The Exodus is looking alarmingly near to the date of a fully developed Kingdom of Israel.
What is more likely is that Exodus has a few anachronisms because it was written long after the supposed date and if they got that wrong, what else was wrong?
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 11-15-2010 at 11:01 PM..
Yeah, it's like trying to teach a pig to fly...Waste of effort.
Well it's always a waste of effort when all the other non believers of the Bible refuse to consider the evidence. And what's even more sad, is the fact that they have no evidence to counter it. They dismiss this evidence by ignoring it only.
Again, those who do not accept the Biblical numbers of people who crossed over the Red Sea, are just those who don't believe the Bible anyway. I am not concerned with their personal opinions. The Bible tells us two million people crossed over.
Fair enough. I am certainly not concerned with personal opinions either. I am more persuaded by evidence - real evidence, not piles of stones, cracked boulders and odd caves combined with far too much imagination.
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And you are the one who is suggesting that the Egyptians made this crude altar. I see nothing in any historical account that would suggest Egyptians ever did anything like that. I have been following the Biblical account. You on the other hand have ignored the account, and are floating theories that are based on no historical evidence. It's not that I'm some kind of archaeology expert. Yet, I base my beliefs on the written word. Where as your beliefs are based more on your own imagination.
I have to agree that Egyptians would not make an altar as crude as that. I was just putting forward some other possibilities before checking up. I am now inclined to believe this alter is just a pile of boulders withe some animal drawings on - nothing to do with Egypt or the exodus.
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Not far from the crossing site is found the story of the crossing written in stone. So it would be inaccurate to suggest that no such evidence exist. The writing was photographed in 1857 by Francis Frith. The Sinaitic Inscriptions were found in Wadee El-Mukattab, Sinai. This is extra Biblical evidence, that agrees with the Biblical account. You can read the account for yourself found on the first page of the link below.
Ok. As to the remark that you won't ever be convinced, I appreciate the way you make your case, unlike Nikk who tropts out the Hyksos stuff wihout troubling to read the posts that utterly refute that connection.
Your value is that, once you have done, there is little argument for that bit of Bible truth that hasn't been thrashed out and we are at least clear what the pros and cons are. Quite apart from your opinion on it, or mine.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 11-15-2010 at 11:02 PM..
I'm looking for confirmation that the Bible is true. Just as a scientist would search for information that would prove a given theory. And when one finds such proof. Then one should really consider it. Don't you think?
I agree. You would concur that the Ahmose tempest stele is of no relevance to the Exodus and the Hyksos - exodus theory does not stand up - based on the evidence?
I can't find out much about the Wadi Sidra inscriptions except a mention that they are in Greek, Nabatean and Latin. That would certainly suggest that they post -date the events as much as does a marker put up by Solomon at a place which was guessed to be a suitable crossing place mentioned in an old national story.
I would imagine that, if they were of any real significance in the debate, there would be a lot more debate other than just a posting on that pretty questionable website. I'll keep looking though.
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