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Old 10-29-2019, 05:46 AM
 
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Theologically the person who allowed non-Jewish Christians to eat pork was James the Just at the Council of Jerusalem. He interpreted the separate Noahide covenant as applying to non-Jews such as Greeks, and the Noahide covenant does not prohibit the eating of pork. By contrast he held that Jewish Christians were still subject to the entirety of the Mosaic covenant.

That's the traditional take on it, anyways.

 
Old 10-29-2019, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,437,403 times
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Well, unclean? Gee whiz - don't get me started on aflaltoxins in our corn silos -aka -
doggy deaths in dry food, '07...or org. Odwalla juice, '96, cantaloupe from CO 2011
killed 33 people...big list.
Cook your food well - clean the parasites off raw vegetables with a vinegar and
water soak or wash...before you cut into ones with skins, too.


Sorry - not just pigs.
 
Old 10-29-2019, 06:32 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,175 posts, read 26,246,409 times
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t was probably just damn good advice at the time, given trichinosis same as mixing fabrics and got given holy writ status to ensure compliance
 
Old 10-29-2019, 07:08 AM
 
Location: North America
4,430 posts, read 2,721,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
t was probably just damn good advice at the time, given trichinosis same as mixing fabrics and got given holy writ status to ensure compliance
No, it really wasn't.

Religions are full of prohibitory rules that make absolutely no practical sense. However, a lot of people go to great lengths to convince everyone (including themselves) that there's some secret wisdom in said prohibitions.

However, the pig was domesticated perhaps 10,000 years ago in the Middle East. It was later domesticated again, separately, in China - and perhaps in India as well. From the Middle East, the domestic pig rapidly spread into Europe and North Africa. From China, the domestic pig spread to Mongolia and Central Asia, to Japan, all throughout Southeast Asia including the Malay Archipelago, from where the Polynesians would eventually carry it all over the Pacific (Hawaii, for example).

Given that the domesticated pig, utilized as a food source, has not only persisted for many millennia but has become widespread and has one of the handful of major sources of meat for humans all over the Earth, it is clear that pigs have been beneficial, not deleterious, to humanity. This demonstrates that the advice not to eat pigs was, in fact, not good advice.
 
Old 10-29-2019, 08:18 AM
 
4,143 posts, read 1,888,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Seriously?
Gentiles also ate chicken and cow and goat and Turkey and wheat and Yogurt and 100’s of other things the Jews ate.
Jews should’ve been ordered not to eat any of those things that the Gentiles ate in order to separate the Jews.
Why only pig?

Imagine a very big feast ceremony with thousands of people and 100 food items, where a small group eats 99 items and refrains from one in an attempt to resist the assimilation. Who would care or notice, and would it work?

Ideally Jews should’ve been ordered to refrain from eating any food that the gentiles ate, and more profoundly, have their own language and never participate in the common feast ceremonies with Gentiles.
It didn't matter that the Gentiles ate hundreds of other things the Jews ate. If there were only one food item at a public feast that was forbidden to Jews, then that would render all the rest of the food at that public feast non-kosher -- regardless of whether the other food was normally considered to be kosher.

As 2x3x29x41 explained in the post above, the domesticated pig was a highly popular food source. Pork would certainly have been present at the public feasts of the Gentiles. That's all it would take, for the Jews to stay away and thereby avoid eventual assimilation.

And, even if pork were not present at a Gentile's public feast, there are rules regarding how the meat should have been prepared, rules prohibiting the mixing of meat products with dairy products, and so on. All of this makes it extremely difficult even today for Jews to eat in public places that are not kosher restaurants.

While all the ancient Pagan peoples were being assimilated and absorbed into the Christian Church, the Jews remained separate. We were viewed as being the "atheists" of ancient history, and we paid dearly for it.
 
Old 10-29-2019, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,696 posts, read 85,065,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
It didn't matter that the Gentiles ate hundreds of other things the Jews ate. If there were only one food item at a public feast that was forbidden to Jews, then that would render all the rest of the food at that public feast non-kosher -- regardless of whether the other food was normally considered to be kosher.

As 2x3x29x41 explained in the post above, the domesticated pig was a highly popular food source. Pork would certainly have been present at the public feasts of the Gentiles. That's all it would take, for the Jews to stay away and thereby avoid eventual assimilation.

And, even if pork were not present at a Gentile's public feast, there are rules regarding how the meat should have been prepared, rules prohibiting the mixing of meat products with dairy products, and so on. All of this makes it extremely difficult even today for Jews to eat in public places that are not kosher restaurants.

While all the ancient Pagan peoples were being assimilated and absorbed into the Christian Church, the Jews remained separate. We were viewed as being the "atheists" of ancient history, and we paid dearly for it.
^Couldn't rep you again, RNY, but I appreciate the informative nature of your posts.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:41 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,058,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
It didn't matter that the Gentiles ate hundreds of other things the Jews ate. If there were only one food item at a public feast that was forbidden to Jews, then that would render all the rest of the food at that public feast non-kosher -- regardless of whether the other food was normally considered to be kosher.

As 2x3x29x41 explained in the post above, the domesticated pig was a highly popular food source. Pork would certainly have been present at the public feasts of the Gentiles. That's all it would take, for the Jews to stay away and thereby avoid eventual assimilation.

And, even if pork were not present at a Gentile's public feast, there are rules regarding how the meat should have been prepared, rules prohibiting the mixing of meat products with dairy products, and so on. All of this makes it extremely difficult even today for Jews to eat in public places that are not kosher restaurants.

While all the ancient Pagan peoples were being assimilated and absorbed into the Christian Church, the Jews remained separate. We were viewed as being the "atheists" of ancient history, and we paid dearly for it.
All of that is excellent except that last paragraph. The Jews were a separate people all to their own for thousands of years. God designed it that way. That's why your people went into Egypt -- because had they stayed, they'd have assimilated into the Canaanite religions. They have always been different and separate.
They had to, because God promised the Messiah through them.

The Christians were called atheists because they wouldn't bow to the Roman gods, nor would they worship Caesar. Yes, later on the pagan religions were assimilated into the Catholic church, but certainly not in the first couple centuries.
 
Old 10-29-2019, 12:15 PM
 
4,143 posts, read 1,888,762 times
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Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
All of that is excellent except that last paragraph. The Jews were a separate people all to their own for thousands of years. God designed it that way. That's why your people went into Egypt -- because had they stayed, they'd have assimilated into the Canaanite religions. They have always been different and separate.
They had to, because God promised the Messiah through them.

The Christians were called atheists because they wouldn't bow to the Roman gods, nor would they worship Caesar. Yes, later on the pagan religions were assimilated into the Catholic church, but certainly not in the first couple centuries.

We weren't even Jews before the covenant with Abraham. And neither would the Jews bow to the Roman gods. Initially, the Romans did not even distinguish between Jews and Christians, viewing the Christians as being just another of the many different sects of Judaism at the time. The Christians diverged from the Jews, though, when they adopted Roman customs and assimilated into Roman society.
 
Old 10-29-2019, 12:19 PM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,058,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
We weren't even Jews before the covenant with Abraham.

I realize that.
Quote:

And neither would the Jews bow to the Roman gods. Initially, the Romans did not even distinguish between Jews and Christians, viewing the Christians as being just another of the many different sects of Judaism at the time.
Agreed. That changed quick enough, though.
Quote:

The Christians diverged from the Jews, though, when they adopted Roman customs and assimilated into Roman society.
You think Nero viewed the Christians as assimilating?
 
Old 10-29-2019, 12:27 PM
 
4,143 posts, read 1,888,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
You think Nero viewed the Christians as assimilating?

Perhaps he did, and saw that as a threat. When the Christians became Romans, the dynamics of Rome were forever changed.
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