Should Jesus have died for us? (Holy Spirit, Biblical, God, Christians)
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I don't understand how it is a *sacrifice* if Jesus died and came back to life three days later. A sacrifice should be a true loss. If Jesus died and was alive again, where is the true gift of loss? It's like giving up a kidney to someone and then taking it back three days later. How does that help them? Also, if Jesus died and stayed dead, he would go back to heaven where he came from so how would that be a sacrifice to God because he lost Jesus but Jesus came back to him? Where is the sacrifice? I don't get it.
You did not even show how Jesus' death saves us from our sins. Try to do so in your next post.
I think it is a kinda telling of the story I did put up here...Jesus went to the cross, to show us, that a sinless soul who fulfills God's word and will, does not die....That is why he had no fear of the coming death he knew was coming for him.
it showed the masses who were there...that this man who had no sin...had been beaten, whipped, tormented, teased, belittled, and called names...all the way to the cross....and he took it all...for he knew he had no sin..
So what kind of system kills inocent people?...surely a corrupt one!
So if the system being supported by many...is corrupt (as we can surely see now), and we now are still part of said system with a different face, but the same body....then most of us are tied to that system in support of its sins and evils being continually done...and death due to sin continues.
It is plainly assumed then that...being sinless, and following all God's instructions, precepts, covenants, laws of the land, and commandments...brings us to salvation...even in death...we can be reborn!
That is how Jesus saves .
and I put it in the other post...so not sure what you mean by not stating it.
Not one tittle will be removed from the law/cammandments.
Now check em out, and ask what is money ?...is it engraven?...do we make it more important than God for life?....
That is just one broken commandment continually done since Jesus walked the Earth...many different forms, but the same face! or the same body..or the same mind..or the same heart....anti God...polluting the fish, the birds, the insects, and the mind.
So how many play the game of death with that?...I think this is something to account on your end.
Putting children into prison for growing a plant and making a means to life..for life sharing and caring (flower power?).. or waring , murdering, oppressing, or sanctioning, and or forcing people who sow seeds and make trade free....is still going on by the system!...yep ...not much has changed then!
Some will say it did not accomplish very much...But that is not true...God got his helper back...tested tried and true!....So...if one wants to be a helper of God...and we have word, been shown, and proven....that the "WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH"...Something Money has everything to do with...then death is constantly with us.....and...being born into this bent system...the new borns now need to be innoculated to keep em alive long enough to indoctrinate em into the system....of sin and Evil....cause somethng is not right, if God intended us to live here naturally..there should be no need for such a injection!...and the food should be safe to eat...but look, some have fallen dead by eating processed foods....wonder why?....because it is unclean...or made that way.
So be weary about it...as they pollute it more..to make more sacrifices to the altar or monument for that IDOL...it needs blood in oh so many ways...and making war with lies is just one of those ways!...also insighting fear, to make war...and now the new ploy is to kill before any thing wrong is done...pre emtive strikes...saying "they may be or might be doing something we do not like"..."so let us go kill em, just to be sure it doesn't happen"....kinda like Sadams death....or the Talabans, or even Bin Laddens.....all hearsay, lies, underhanded dealings, and packs of war maidens made with these people...and then..they try to wipe em out, so they do not have to pay the restitution for their help...in X Y or Z...Dirty laundry cleaning...eh?
So did Jesus die for nothing?...No...he Died showing us how ugly the system is....and his conviction to God was strong enough to keep him out of sin...no sin = no death!...Jesus shared..and charged no one...all given Freely!
I want to ask the question of whether it is right or necessary to kill an willing innocent victim for the crimes of the rest of us.
To me this sounds wrong because when someone does wrong to others, they deserve punishment. You don't punish someone else for their crimes because that is not what that innocent person deserves. Letting a person who deserves punishment not have that punishment is wrong. It does not matter that an innocent person wants to be punished for the crimes of the guilty, the guilty deserve punishment and the innocent does not, so the guilty should be punished.
If you think of punishment as making the guilty give back what they took, or compensating the victim and the victim's family, making sure that further crime doesn't happen again, and that further crime is discouraged, scapegoating still doesn't make sense.
Punishing an innocent person for the crimes of the guilty does not give back to the victims of the crime. It certainly does not discourage crime very much and certainly discourages crime far less than punishing the guilty because the guilty are punished less than they should.
It does not keep the guilty person from committing the crime as much. All we can do is hope that the guilty person feels bad about what he has done when he is released. In fact any benefits scapegoating has can also be received by just being merciful to the guilty person and not even punishing the innocent person.
What if a criminal was brought in for murder and was about to receive the death penalty when his mother volunteered to take his place. Would you kill the mother and let the criminal go? Use some common sense.
I will ignore responses that do not try to show why their position is true through reason.
From A Biblical/Christian standpoint:
The punishment is spiritual death, i.e separation from God. Mankind is incapable of escaping this punishment, on their own. God, in his infinite mercy & grace provided a way of escape. Jesus, of His own accord, elected to suffer our punishment to satisfy the Father's holiness. Because of Christ's sacrifice, the relationship has been repaired.
The punishment is spiritual death, i.e separation from God. Mankind is incapable of escaping this punishment, on their own. God, in his infinite mercy & grace provided a way of escape. Jesus, of His own accord, elected to suffer our punishment to satisfy the Father's holiness. Because of Christ's sacrifice, the relationship has been repaired.
See Colossians 2, Romans 3, John 10
It's a feeble attempt because the bible proves nothing.
I don't understand how it is a *sacrifice* if Jesus died and came back to life three days later. A sacrifice should be a true loss. If Jesus died and was alive again, where is the true gift of loss? It's like giving up a kidney to someone and then taking it back three days later. How does that help them? Also, if Jesus died and stayed dead, he would go back to heaven where he came from so how would that be a sacrifice to God because he lost Jesus but Jesus came back to him? Where is the sacrifice? I don't get it.
Certainly, the type of death He suffered was brutal. In addition, the mental angiush prior was torturous. Nevertheless, you make a good point. Some might be willing to suffer this for a greater cause.
The difference occurs because Jesus takes the sins of all mankind upon Himself. Matthew 27 & Mark 15 records this episode. He was made a sin-offering, and He died in our place, on our account, that He might bring us near to God. It was this which caused His intense sufferings. It was the manifestation of God’s hatred of sin, in some way which He has not explained, that Jesus experienced in that terrible hour. It was suffering endured by Him that was due to us, and suffering by which, and by which alone, we can be saved from eternal death.
Jesus was expressing His feelings of abandonment as God placed the sins of the world on Him – and because of that had to “turn away” from Jesus. As Jesus was feeling that weight of sin, He was experiencing separation from God for the only time in all of eternity.
It is plainly assumed then that...being sinless, and following all God's instructions, precepts, covenants, laws of the land, and commandments...brings us to salvation...even in death...we can be reborn!
That is how Jesus saves .
None of us are sinless so we could not be saved.
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