Should Jesus have died for us? (Savior, Roman, blood, resurrection)
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Jesus was not sent here to die for our sins. God does not require a blood sacrifice. That is a pagan belief. Jesus came to earth to show people that the kingdom of God was inside of them and he taught people how to be connected to God and how to love others. The problem was that he came during a time where the people had a very savage violent primitive mindset that was also very pagan in its religious beliefs. Thus, Jesus's teachings threatened the power structure of the time. Thus, he was murdered.
Jesus was not sent here to die for our sins. God does not require a blood sacrifice. That is a pagan belief. Jesus came to earth to show people that the kingdom of God was inside of them and he taught people how to be connected to God and how to love others. The problem was that he came during a time where the people had a very savage violent primitive mindset that was also very pagan in its religious beliefs. Thus, Jesus's teachings threatened the power structure of the time. Thus, he was murdered.
If what you say is true....
What does it mean that Jesus came to give His life a ransom for many?
What does the whole book of Hebrews mean (specifically that Christ has made purification for sins)?
What does the apostle Peter mean when he says "this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men"?
I don't disagree that Jesus was murdered. I would also agree that Jesus wasn't punished on the cross in our stead, satisfying God's wrath. But to say that Jesus was not sent here to die for our sins is simply not true (if you believe the Scriptures).
I believe it is a question of what "dying for our sins" actually means... that holds the key.
If what you say is true....
What does it mean that Jesus came to give His life a ransom for many?
What does the whole book of Hebrews mean (specifically that Christ has made purification for sins)?
What does the apostle Peter mean when he says "this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men"?
I don't disagree that Jesus was murdered. I would also agree that Jesus wasn't punished on the cross in our stead, satisfying God's wrath. But to say that Jesus was not sent here to die for our sins is simply not true (if you believe the Scriptures).
I believe it is a question of what "dying for our sins" actually means... that holds the key.
Blessings
Steph
Sin is "missing the mark" and prior to Jesus our entire species was missing the mark . . . not achieving a human consciousness compatible with God's pure agape love because of their savagery and barbarity. Christ was sent knowing what would befall Him during such a barbarous era . . . but with the express mission of making up for our species inability to produce agape love resonant with God's consciousness (Holy Spirit). Jesus attained an IDENTICAL agape love (Holy Spirit) in His human consciousness (obviously given His Father).
Christ's mission would have been accomplished even if He had then lived a long and meaningful earthly life . . . because all humans die. His death and rebirth as Spirit is what made His Holy Spirit in His human consciousness (Comforter) available to ALL of us in our human consciousness. The fact that it was such a savage and brutal death is why it was a sacrifice of love for us all (by Jesus) . . . to endure it . . . knowing in advance it would happen and forgiving us after it . . . because we "knew not what we did.".
Sin is "missing the mark" and prior to Jesus our entire species was missing the mark . . . not achieving a human consciousness compatible with God's pure agape love because of their savagery and barbarity. Christ was sent knowing what would befall Him during such a barbarous era . . . but with the express mission of making up for our species inability to produce agape love resonant with God's consciousness (Holy Spirit). Jesus attained an IDENTICAL agape love (Holy Spirit) in His human consciousness (obviously given His Father).
Christ's mission would have been accomplished even if He had then lived a long and meaningful earthly life . . . because all humans die. His death and rebirth as Spirit is what made His Holy Spirit in His human consciousness (Comforter) available to ALL of us in our human consciousness. The fact that it was such a savage and brutal death is why it was a sacrifice of love for us all (by Jesus) . . . to endure it . . . knowing in advance it would happen and forgiving us after it . . . because we "knew not what we did.".
Really your reply didn't address my 3 questions. You haven't interacted at all with the Scriptures I brought up, even if only to offer an alternate way of understanding them..
Ihave not sinned (define your interpretation of sin ) how dare you judge me ,you dont know meand what your excuse for being judge and jury in this matter.
please dont quote the bible
What does it mean that Jesus came to give His life a ransom for many?
What does the whole book of Hebrews mean (specifically that Christ has made purification for sins)?
What does the apostle Peter mean when he says "this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men"?
I don't disagree that Jesus was murdered. I would also agree that Jesus wasn't punished on the cross in our stead, satisfying God's wrath. But to say that Jesus was not sent here to die for our sins is simply not true (if you believe the Scriptures).
I believe it is a question of what "dying for our sins" actually means... that holds the key.
Blessings
Steph
first you have to prove that the bible is true and not a work of superstition
The New Testament is written by men who took the true message of Jesus and made it into a religion. The gospels were written by men who basically job shadowed Jesus during his life, but they took what he said and filtered it through their religious minds. Thus, they figured that Jesus's death was used to appease God. They didn't understand what he was coming for. They probably knew the truth in their heart but denied it because religion usually teaches not to trust yourself because you are evil. Thus, it doesn't matter what the book of Hebrews says. It is just man's opinion.
Really your reply didn't address my 3 questions. You haven't interacted at all with the Scriptures I brought up, even if only to offer an alternate way of understanding them..
I apparently did a poor job of communicating it . . . but I definitely addressed your questions. It was not what you wanted to hear . . . but it answered them. Perhaps rearranging my response might clarify it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steph1980
What does it mean that Jesus came to give His life a ransom for many?
He was sent here to give His life for ALL of us who were being held hostage to our animal natures (Sins).
Quote:
What does the whole book of Hebrews mean (specifically that Christ has made purification for sins)?
Our sins are what were keeping us from God. Sin is "missing the mark" and prior to Jesus our entire species was missing the mark . . . not achieving a human consciousness compatible with God's pure agape love because of their savagery and barbarity. Jesus attained an IDENTICAL PURE agape love (Holy Spirit) in His human consciousness (obviously . . . given His Father). Now the collective human consciousness has Christ's PURE (Sin-free) consciousness connected to God available to us ALL.
Quote:
What does the apostle Peter mean when he says "this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men"?
As I said, both God and Jesus KNEW what our savage ancestors would do to Him during that barbarous era. Christ was sent knowing what would befall Him during such a barbarous era . . . but with the express mission of making up for our species inability to produce agape love (Sins) resonant with God's consciousness (Holy Spirit).
Quote:
I don't disagree that Jesus was murdered. I would also agree that Jesus wasn't punished on the cross in our stead, satisfying God's wrath. But to say that Jesus was not sent here to die for our sins is simply not true (if you believe the Scriptures).
I believe it is a question of what "dying for our sins" actually means... that holds the key.
Blessings
Steph
Christ's mission would have been accomplished even if He had then lived a long and meaningful earthly life . . . because all humans die. His death and rebirth as Spirit is what made His Holy Spirit in His human consciousness (Comforter) available to ALL of us in our human consciousness. The fact that it was such a savage and brutal death is why it was a sacrifice of love for us all (by Jesus) . . . to endure it . . . knowing in advance it would happen and forgiving us after it . . . because we "knew not what we did."
Did that make my answers clearer and more directly addressed to your questions, Steph?
Last edited by MysticPhD; 03-09-2012 at 10:19 PM..
I've always maintained that Jesus died for the sins of his father. I don't see why people call what Jesus did much of a sacrifice. First of all you can't kill a deity second it's not like he stayed dead he came back. So how is that a sacrifice?
Oh really? As a Pagan myself I'd love to hear about that.
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