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There has been no such evidence that hatred of homosexuals is the ONLY reason to oppose gay marriage . . . the existence of such hatred in individuals notwithstanding.
That would be evidence of a negative. One would have to prove other arguments do not exist. We do not prove negatives.
However if we seek arguments for the opposition of gay marriage we do not find any. We just hear things like "Homosexuality is unnatural" or "Anal sex is disgusting" or "Homosexuality is a choice" or "God hates ****" or "God made adam and eve not adam and steve".
Actual arguments against homosexual marriage do not appear to be forthcoming. The closest attempt I have heard is the appeal to tradition fallacy but I would be hesitant to call a fallacy an argument - even if you are not.
That would be evidence of a negative. One would have to prove other arguments do not exist. We do not prove negatives.
However if we seek arguments for the opposition of gay marriage we do not find any. We just hear things like "Homosexuality is unnatural" or "Anal sex is disgusting" or "Homosexuality is a choice" or "God hates ****" or "God made adam and eve not adam and steve".
Actual arguments against homosexual marriage do not appear to be forthcoming. The closest attempt I have heard is the appeal to tradition fallacy but I would be hesitant to call a fallacy an argument - even if you are not.
Come on . . . you aren't seriously trying to suggest that hatred actually IS the ONLY reason to oppose gay marriage?? You are dismissing the entire panoply of potential human emotions and motivations on the basis of WHAT???
Come on . . . you aren't seriously trying to suggest that hatred actually IS the ONLY reason to oppose gay marriage?? You are dismissing the entire panoply of potential human emotions and motivations on the basis of WHAT???
I am suggesting what I said and no more or less than what I said. What I am suggesting is that I have not been made aware of any arguments against gay marriage except what I just listed in my previous post.
I am suggesting what I said and no more or less than what I said. What I am suggesting is that I have not been made aware of any arguments against gay marriage except what I just listed in my previous post.
And your being aware or not being aware is evidence of WHAT???
Come on . . . you aren't seriously trying to suggest that hatred actually IS the ONLY reason to oppose gay marriage?? You are dismissing the entire panoply of potential human emotions and motivations on the basis of WHAT???
Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus
I am suggesting what I said and no more or less than what I said. What I am suggesting is that I have not been made aware of any arguments against gay marriage except what I just listed in my previous post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
And your being aware or not being aware is evidence of WHAT???
Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus
I never claimed it was evidence of anything. Maybe try reading post #418 again.
Try reading the bold sequence again. Post #418 IMPLIES that hate IS the only reason. You seem to be weaseling out of that using your awareness of arguments.
Try reading the bold sequence again. Post #418 IMPLIES that hate IS the only reason. You seem to be weaseling out of that using your awareness of arguments.
So I am weaseling out of my position by expressing what my position actually is? You really are a ticket for sure. The only person weaseling here is you as you ignore what the post I just reffered you to said. My point was that some positions are just hateful given that they are held for no other reason other than hate and are defended by using nothing but hate.
If there are no cogent arguments against gay marriage and those against it are giving us nothing but "Homosexuality is unnatural" or "Anal sex is disgusting" then this _is_ a position of hate, like it or not.
Now if you want to present some arguments attacking gay marriage on its merits and demerits then this would change things - but that is not what we are being given is it - and the fact such arguments are not forthcoming from these people is very telling indeed - after all if they really cared about the positions they are expressing they would bring all their arguments to bear would they not? Yet they do not - which tells us much.
It seems you are discussing people on the gay threads and NOT the fundamental idea of opposition without malice that I am discussing. What did you say about great minds, Sans? I am not suggesting that there are no hateful people opposed to gay marriage nor that there are not people who dislike gays who are opposed. What I AM saying is that it is NOT necessary to hate or dislike to be opposed . . . as the OP erroneously asserts.
Perhaps you do not call it hate. Perhaps it is just a dispassionate deprivation of people of their rights of citizenship due to a condition of birth. It is a thought still ugly and cheapening of our humanity.
Sociopaths (not that you are one) are able to very coolly do the cruelest things to other people, lacking the ability to empathize. Technically, that is not hatred, but something even lower than that emotion in my estimation. These twisted individuals cannot feel empathy for another and are capable of the utmost cruelty because of their detachment.
Hate resides within individuals and is NOT a characteristic of any positions held. Positions can be held with or without hate. That some who oppose gay marriage are hateful does not make the position against gay marriage an indicator of hate. We need to be very careful when trying to make such sweeping judgments about people and the positions they hold on various issues.
Bovine excrement Hate born in the petri dish of religious stupidity is taught from the pulpit of many churches multiple time a week.
And you talking about making sweeping judgments...... WOW, just f...... WOW
I know people with gay tendencies who don't believe God approves of gay marriage. One of them was a respected member of this board.
So I take the point that the religion itself might have a root in hatred, but there are people, even some gay people, who object to gay marriage on grounds other than hatred.
Of course, I don't think religion should have any place in the state sanctioned union of two people, so those arguments don't work for me. But still, it's hard to say that hatred directly accounts for all opposition to gay marriage.
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Hate born in the petri dish of religious stupidity is taught from the pulpit of many churches multiple time a week.
