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Three angels visited Abraham, God's hand-picked founder of his chosen nation, Israel. They came disguised as men, travelers along the road. Two of them went down to Sodom and Gomorrah, to observe firsthand the wickedness in those cities.
The other visitor, who was the Lord, stayed behind. He revealed to Abraham that he was going to destroy the cities because of the evil ways of their people. Abraham, a special friend of the Lord, began to bargain with God to spare the cities if there were righteous people in them.
First Abraham asked if the Lord would spare the cities if fifty righteous people lived there. The Lord said yes. Boldly, Abraham kept bargaining down, until God agreed not to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah if even ten righteous people lived there. Then the Lord departed.
When the two angels arrived at Sodom that evening, Abraham's nephew LOT met them at the city gate. Lot and his family lived in Sodom. He took the two men to his home and fed them.
Then all the men of the city surrounded Lot's house and said, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." (Genesis 19:5,NIV By ancient custom, the visitors were under Lot's protection. Lot was so infected by the wickedness of Sodom that he offered the homosexuals his two virgin daughters instead. Furious, the mob rushed up to break down the door.
The angels struck the rioters blind! Leading Lot, his wife, and two daughters by the hand, the angels hurried them out of the city. The girls' fiancés would not listen and stayed behind.
Lot and his family fled to a tiny village called Zoar. The Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah, destroying the buildings, the people, and all the vegetation in the plain. Lot's wife disobeyed the angels, looked back, and turned into a pillar of salt.
Nope. You added in the word 'homosexuals' yourself.
Try reading Judges 19- the story of the Levite stranger. You might actually get clue that the men who threatened to rape male strangers were actuallly heterosexual not homosexual.
I've never come across a gay-bashing Christian who has even read this story. Just shows that people who abuse the Bible to use against other,s usually haven't read the whole Bible themselves.
God doesn't actually hate gays, it seems quite the opposite.. look at all of the gays He's placed in the Catholic clergy.
Are you saying you think all the priests who molested boys were gay?
Perhaps some were. Most weren't. A young boy without secondary sexual characteristics is far more likely to be molested by an opportunistic straight male. Men like these are called 'regressed' pedophiles who also have an adult sexual orientation. A 'fixed' or true pedophile has no adult sexual orientation and is neither gay nor straight.
In the same way that being against pre-martial sex, greed, and killing isn't hateful. Many people, myself included, find gay sex repulsive, but wonder if their truly is a God, then why do some people seem predisposed to being gay from an early age?
If spite of this question of faith, I don't think science or the human mind is capable of explaining that born nudists feel shame at around five. Modesty is pretty strong evidence that the books of Moses are, in fact, true. We have spiritual thoughts, or lack of them for a reason.
The fact the you're writing is on the defensive suggests that you are trying to justify your actions. This has two causes that I can think of, our societies stigma against gays, and guilt brought on by a God you may not have enough faith in. Did you know a celibate gay pastor in the World Trade Center was blessing people as the towers fell during 9/11? This makes me question my faith most of all because the poor man was not turned from his sinful urges, in spite of what was clearly a great, almost inhuman amount of devotion.
Because Christianity, Judaism and Islam follow a faith that is against gays, a society that trusts in God will not support gay marriage. The question really is, is it better to be oppressed by religion your whole earthly life, or be to faithful in waiting for the next one. Personally I have been happier living faithfully than as an atheist, if that answers your question. Even if hedonism brings you pleasure it won't bring you happiness, because we are all aware of our own mortality. Suffering for the good of humanity brings true happiness, but not instant pleasure. If you don't believe my advice, go on freerice and find out for yourself.
You think being gay is like 'pre-martial' sex, greed, killing and hedonism?
Your views show that you have pre-judged and negatively stereotyped all gay and lesbian people, as well as only focused on sex and nothing else. Not love, not family, not friendship, not career, not dreams etc.
Would you only think about sex when you think of straight people?
This says more about you than it does about gay people.
Maybe you could try to actually get to know some average gay and lesbian people?
First off, I agree with you that gays are wrong in saying it's not a choice. I'm straight, and choose to be celibate because I'm waiting on the one I love. Therefore, gays can also choose not to have sex.
Why gays have gay thoughts from a young age is much more perplexing.
You're simply proving its NOT a choice.
I was gay for a long time before I ever made the choice to become sexually active. See the difference?
Nope. You added in the word 'homosexuals' yourself.
Try reading Judges 19- the story of the Levite stranger. You might actually get clue that the men who threatened to rape male strangers were actuallly heterosexual not homosexual.
I've never come across a gay-bashing Christian who has even read this story. Just shows that people who abuse the Bible to use against other,s usually haven't read the whole Bible themselves.
Yep...God said ...anyone man lies with a man (male with male) as would with a woman... is an abomonation.. and should be put to death...their blood is on their heads....doesn't persay say anything about Gay people?....sure....But that is what Gay people do....same with beastiality people or animals ingaging in sex God also points out in Deuteronomy...doesn't mention the sexual orientation of them either...but it is not something God condones...sexual ludeness of any kind is plain to see God aborhs...Jesus also claims just thinking sexual thoughts about adultary is the same as actually doing the act...Thus our thoughts and mind and heart, and body is to be pure....
So Yes reading the whole bible is important...and those abomonable things should be put aside.. and in that...the sin is reduced in the world....less sin..more abundantly Giving the living experiances will be....more lands in abundance makes for more food..less starvation When shared, and taught to do the same.....and with more food..comes more healthy people...less cost in health care....and when that healthy person starts sowing seeds and helping make more of what God said is given....then the cost of living goes down..and the life in healthy estates goes up....
Don't do what God said...and woe and wrath will come...Yep read the whole Bible....cause and effect...seems to be oh so true.
Now arguing this kind of sexual doctrine...is debased...there is no real logical solution which will keep them as they want to be...different...and yet claim to be the same....and want simular or the same treatment as everyone else who is not like them....and if we do not sumit to their delusionally lude Practices....then we are made the bad Guys.....
Might in numbers may win the day...But God/Jesus rules the world...and some how I find Truth when I draw my lines to the Bible book, and in practice of doing the will and fulfilling the words.....So...Yes read the whole Bible...and fulfilling some of it in your life....God does not ask we condone Sexual ludeness of any kind...infact all he asked and the reason for our making is to service the planet with our love, and our hand in keeping it clean and presteen...sowing seeds, and growing and climatizing the world we live on, and who's word is paramount to follow...in good stewardship....anything else is misdirected efforts to lead us astray.
So yes read the whole Bible...some will gain wisdom from it, and some will toss it away saying it is myth..fable..or untrue..because they did not seek with their heart, nor did they try to do anything listed there in.....
But I say look at the woes now upon the Earth ...draw the lines to cause and effect...connect the dots...and it all becomes true when you seek that truth of God....no doubt will be left...and the wisdom will be consumed by those who can.
Yep...God said ...anyone man lies with a man (male with male) as would with a woman... is an abomonation.. and should be put to death...their blood is on their heads..
Ehh, no - God didn't say any such thing. Primitive, ignorant men said it.
The "god" of the Bible isn't remotely qualified to hold the title of God and certainly nowhere near intelligent enough to have created the wheel much less the entire universe. You'll find nothing within The Bible's pages that is the product of any mind greater than those bronze age men who wrote it
Sir Les, you seem to be avoiding this particular question I asked of you, is there a particular reason why you choose to not answer or is it because you can't answer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum
Sir Les, I have a question for you, how does someone who is a homosexual affect you? Are they making you become a homosexual? Are they making you lived their type of lifestyle? Are they not human beings such as you? I wonder if it were the other way around how would you feel then? Now I also wonder if you're able to answer the questions that are present to you with honestly?
Yep...God said ...anyone man lies with a man (male with male) as would with a woman... is an abomonation..
The problem with quoting Leviticus out of context, and the history at the time that it is written is that we run the risk of mis-interpreting it. There is some theological study and thought that believe this passage is in reference to sexual abuses, such as sodomy, and has nothing to do with God's position on a loving relationship between same sex people.
If the passage was not given by God, and written with the intent to direct it at creating a law against a loving same sex couple, then maybe using it for such a purpose is heresy.
I am gay but I have a real problem with this kind of "if you don't agree with me, you must hate me" kind of thinking.
Some people are from a different generation and the idea of same sex marriage is too radical a change for them. I don't agree with them. I do think their beliefs are based on old prejudices, but that doesn't mean they hate me. None of us is free from prejudice, and that most definitely includes gays themselves.
right, but other prejudices aren't currently codified into laws by voter initiatives because doing so violates the constitution, why isn't that so in THIS case?
Ehh, no - God didn't say any such thing. Primitive, ignorant men said it.
The "god" of the Bible isn't remotely qualified to hold the title of God and certainly nowhere near intelligent enough to have created the wheel much less the entire universe. You'll find nothing within The Bible's pages that is the product of any mind greater than those bronze age men who wrote it
You are correct.
In those early days it was the advantage to these tribes to produce many offspring, to increase their numbers. This no longer applies to modern civilizations.
On the converse, ancient Romans and Greeks encouraged homosexual relations in their armies, believing that one fought more valiantly for a loved one.
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