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The Jewish view is that Chrstians are not faulted by G-d for their man-god beliefs, as long as they lived good lives. G-d is less interested in your creed and more interested in your deeds. Do the right thing with your actions, and you can worship a toad as your toad-god, and you'll be good in the end.
Does that apply to people who don't worship at all? Like atheists? Or does there have to be a God like entity of some sort, like a frog?
If we Christians are wrong about Jesus (that he's not God), will God punish us harshly for worshipping a man as God?
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop
The Jewish view is that Chrstians are not faulted by G-d for their man-god beliefs, as long as they lived good lives. G-d is less interested in your creed and more interested in your deeds. Do the right thing with your actions, and you can worship a toad as your toad-god, and you'll be good in the end.
I have refrained from posting in this thread because from ANY religions' vantage point beliefs seem to be central. In my view . . . beliefs as we normally construe them (i.e., as intellectual acceptance and affirmation of precepts and doctrines) are irrelevant to God. Flipflop seems to have said a similar thing . . . though I doubt he means it in the same way that I do. However . . . what I call true beliefs (which have nothing to do with our intellectual acceptance or acknowledgment) are of utmost importance to God. They determine our actual attitudes and behaviors in life as revealed by our "fruits" . . . what flipflop calls our deeds.
Worship as practiced in most religions seems to proceed under the unspoken premise that God wants this kind of adoration or fawning over Him as devoted subjects . . . and if you fawn over the wrong God you are in trouble. Since for monotheists there is only ONE God that exists . . . this has always struck me as a rather absurd concern. Besides . . . worship is NOT for God and can NOT add to or detract from God in any way. It is for us. It alters our mind and "tunes" it to God's frequency in love. This comes back to our underlying state of mind and our true beliefs . . . so the external specifics are superficial and irrelevant, IMO.
I have refrained from posting in this thread because from ANY religions' vantage point beliefs seem to be central. In my view . . . beliefs as we normally construe them (i.e., as intellectual acceptance and affirmation of precepts and doctrines) are irrelevant to God. Flipflop seems to have said a similar thing . . . though I doubt he means it in the same way that I do. However . . . what I call true beliefs (which have nothing to do with our intellectual acceptance or acknowledgment) are of utmost importance to God. They determine our actual attitudes and behaviors in life as revealed by our "fruits" . . . what flipflop calls our deeds.
Worship as practiced in most religions seems to proceed under the unspoken premise that God wants this kind of adoration or fawning over Him as devoted subjects . . . and if you fawn over the wrong God you are in trouble. Since for monotheists there is only ONE God that exists . . . this has always struck me as a rather absurd concern. Besides . . . worship is NOT for God and can NOT add to or detract from God in any way. It is for us. It alters our mind and "tunes" it to God's frequency in love. This comes back to our underlying state of mind and our true beliefs . . . so the external specifics are superficial and irrelevant, IMO.
So, there is no meaning in Gods word? And if not, why the arguments about it? There should be no problem if following Gods word does not come into play. Only worship is necessary? Could you clarify?
Umm, not sure that worshipping a toad is okay according to the Seven Noahide Laws.
With good deeds, the goyim can worship frogs all they want, And they're no further from olam haba than worshipping a false messiah. Remember, nearly all Chrstians are already failing as Noahides.
So, there is no meaning in Gods word? And if not, why the arguments about it? There should be no problem if following Gods word does not come into play. Only worship is necessary? Could you clarify?
Your questions cut to the chase on the issues that religions like to ignore or denigrate in self-defense of their dogma. The fundamental issue for those who believe there is a God is . . . "What does God want from us and how do we know it?" This is what accounts for the myriad "God's Words" out there. It is clear from human nature that if there were undeniable certainty about this . . . there would be little to no room for individual choice or voluntary freedom of action. The underlying theme that seems to drive some of the "God's Words" is the desire on God's part for us to voluntarily choose His ways. This is where the contradiction arises . . . between certainty and voluntary choice. This is typically the explanation for why God does not make His existence certain. This eventually leads to the belief that must God communicate with us in indirect ways and that our efforts to understand or explain God are influenced by God (Inspired) . . . leading to various "God's Words." The diversity of human thought, inspiration and interpretation accounts for the arguments . . . leaving personal experience to form the ultimate basis for each individual's beliefs or lack thereof.
The Creator God is non-judgmental and impersonal. It creates and that is all it does.
It doesn't care about you or anything else. If it did, it wouldn't have created diseases that torture and kill you. It wouldn't have created poisonous insects and reptiles that are capable of killing creatures much to large for them to ever eat.
If it cared about you it would have made all men love each other and there would be no wars.
If it cared about you, you would never be too hot or too cold.
If it cared about you it would have given you a fur coat like other animals, and tough skin so that little twigs wouldn't tear it, and tough feet so that you wouldn't have to wear shoes.
If it cared about you the climate would be temperate world-wide so that you could find food all year round.
Interesting. The way it seems to be going (and not for the first time) is that a god who is deserving of worship, is just and merciful even half -way reasonable, is going to be cool with everyone who worships Him in whatever form -even in triune form of either catholic, Mormon or Hindu persuasion.
He is not going to be mad if we we worship a long -dead Jew alongside him - or even his mother. ('These humans, these ideas, where do they get them? )
We are moving away from any particular 'right' religion, any kinds of hell-threat, any problem of evil, any kind of arguing about religion - except as one might debate the merits of curry -spicing food or just letting the natural flavours come through: nothing to fight about.
Indeed, a world where religion is more about what suits an individual than what suits God. A world where everyone can have their own festivals and anyone can join in. Where religion is about love and joy, not about hate and fear.
On an intellectual and evidential and perhaps personal level, I might not be persuaded to believe any one of them, but I'd be able to live with a world like that.
Well, put, Arequipa!
I think the core of religion is spirituality - & that spiritual feeling you feel is always within you.
How you are inspired, may be vastly different from how I am inspired, but who's to say one is better than the other - if they both motivate us in positive, healthy ways?
Still... I don't believe in human sacrifice, nor in scapegoating, nor in worshipping anything except God/Love/Truth.
I love Christ's teachings, & believe Christ was not Jesus' last name, but a consciousness he achieved & taught others to, not to worship him.
Jesus is a personification of spirituality. Just as children resonate better with Santa than the Christmas Spirit, many resonate more with someone like them (a person) than an abstract concept like God, or love or truth. I still struggle with this somewhat, but I'm realizing that God/Truth/Love is not any one thing or person I can cling to for dear life (false gods). Each moment calls for a different truth/love, so God is an ongoing dynamic process.
I love Christ's teachings, & believe Christ was not Jesus' last name, ...
Ummm, it wasn't! 9 out of 10 Christians say 'Jesus Christ' when it is actually 'Jesus The Christ'. 'Christ' is a title not a surname and means 'anointed one'. It just means that the person has been anointed with oils or some such.
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If we Christians are wrong about Jesus (that he's not God), will God punish us harshly for worshipping a man as God?
Could you clarify?
I'll stick to nothing.
)
Well, put, Arequipa!
