Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If it please the assembled court, I'll re-direct, your honor:
TWD39, I have a question for you:
So. Here's your chance: be honest and truthful with me: do you really literally buy this stuff, hook, line & sinker?
Yes or No. (or, like so many Christians here, will you now find some Selective Evasion to not have to answer this with a simple Y or N? OK... We'll now see for sure, won't we?)
GopherIt Man! Show us the strength of the Lord, and your personal spiritual convictions!
That's not even the point. THe point is their stories share striking similiarities to the Bible. But of course, you will ignore that because that's what skeptics do.
Instead, you retreat back to your "it's physically IMPOSSIBLE!!!" argument. Well let's look at that. Have you ever witnessed a global flood? Then how can you perfectly predict how a global flood would operate and affect the earth afterwards?
This is why I can't go against the Bible and put 100% of my faith into science.
It is no retreat, it is simply physical reality.
Here's the deal. Unlike some of your other smug hallucinations, like heaven, hell, holy spirits, etc., Noah's claimed Flood is a FALSIFIABLE PHYSICAL EVENT. Such a colossal event, as claimed in the Bible would have
1. Required enough water to cover the highest peaks
2. Left an unmistakable signature in its wake
among other things.
Neither of these two things have been observed, THEREFORE it is perfectly valid to conclude "It never happened". It not only never happened, such an event COULD NOT HAPPEN on this planet...PERIOD.
The reasons why have been presented for decades on Fidonet and the Internet. The physics that would be required for such an event has been known for quite a long time. You cannot reconstruct such a CLAIMED event without invoking MAGIC. Once you do this, you are done, but you're done in anyway by the sheer physical impossibility of such a CLAIMED event.
That's not even the point. THe point is their stories share striking similiarities to the Bible. But of course, you will ignore that because that's what skeptics do.
The story is either true, or it is not. It cannot be "partially" true. The story is that a global flood killed all life on the planet, save those 8 humans and who knows how many animals that were purportedly on an ark.
Many undeniable items have been offered to point out that not only did that NOT happen, indeed it is literally impossible for it to have happened.
Now, if you want to point at the Black Sea or any other of hundreds or thousands of floods that have occurred over the history of humanity as the ultimate source for the story that became the myth of Noah, I won't argue with you, that may very well be the case.
However, if you are then somehow going to stretch that into stating that the story as presented in the buybull is TRUE, you have made a logical leap that is unsupported, and indeed unsupportable, by any known facts or evidence.
Quote:
Have you ever witnessed a global flood? Then how can you perfectly predict how a global flood would operate and affect the earth afterwards?
We can logically predict that it would have wiped out the Egyptians, the Chinese, the Greece, and many other societies known to have existed at the time, and yet it did not.
We can logically predict that it would have left a geological footprint that does not exist.
We can logically predict that it actually would have led to the extinction of all life on the planet, ark or no ark, as there would have been no food sources on the barren landscape for the ark dwellers to survive on, not to mention that the change in salinity of the "water world" would likely have killed every fish, mussel, crab, and other creature that lives in water.
And we can logically predict a genetic indication that we're all descended from the 8 family members on said boat if they somehow defied extinction, which does not exist.
And we can calculate the amount of water required to cover the globe to 18 cubits above the tip of Mt. Everest, and since we know how much water is on the globe, and since that number is a small fraction of the required amount, we can logically predict that it never happened.
Quote:
Let's take a modern day example. Japan's Tsunami. You know from science how tsunamsi operates. But does that mean you could perfectly predict exactly how a tsunami of that magnitude would affect Japan?
Me, personally? No. But people who know enough about such things could. Furthermore, you can visit Japan in 500 or 1,000 years and find geological evidence of that tsunami, even if we plunge into the dark ages between now and then and lose our knowledge and technology.
Quote:
Perhaps, but could you also predict that debris would wash up on American shores?
Sure you could, prevailing ocean patterns are well known, and while they do vary, it is not by much. So, could you have said on this day at this time, debris will come ashore at this spot? Probably not with much accuracy. But to predict it would find it's way to a general area in a general timeframe is child's play for a person with access to the right information.
Here's the deal. Unlike some of your other smug hallucinations, like heaven, hell, holy spirits, etc., Noah's claimed Flood is a FALSIFIABLE PHYSICAL EVENT. Such a colossal event, as claimed in the Bible would have
1. Required enough water to cover the highest peaks
2. Left an unmistakable signature in its wake
among other things.
Neither of these two things have been observed, THEREFORE it is perfectly valid to conclude "It never happened". It not only never happened, such an event COULD NOT HAPPEN on this planet...PERIOD.
The reasons why have been presented for decades on Fidonet and the Internet. The physics that would be required for such an event has been known for quite a long time. You cannot reconstruct such a CLAIMED event without invoking MAGIC. Once you do this, you are done, but you're done in anyway by the sheer physical impossibility of such a CLAIMED event.
Again, unless you witnessed a global flood in person, you are merely taking an educated guess on how the physics would operate and what kind of evidence should have been left behind. A GUESS. This does not equate to indisputable proof that it never happened.
Again, unless you witnessed a global flood in person, you are merely taking an educated guess on how the physics would operate and what kind of evidence should have been left behind. A GUESS. This does not equate to indisputable proof that it never happened.
You are wrong. It is easy to calculate how much water would be required to fulfill the myth. This water does not exist on this planet. Water is a non-newtonian fluid, virtually incompressible and CANNOT HIDE.
Where did the water come from and where did it go?
The story is either true, or it is not. It cannot be "partially" true. The story is that a global flood killed all life on the planet, save those 8 humans and who knows how many animals that were purportedly on an ark.
Many undeniable items have been offered to point out that not only did that NOT happen, indeed it is literally impossible for it to have happened.
Now, if you want to point at the Black Sea or any other of hundreds or thousands of floods that have occurred over the history of humanity as the ultimate source for the story that became the myth of Noah, I won't argue with you, that may very well be the case.
However, if you are then somehow going to stretch that into stating that the story as presented in the buybull is TRUE, you have made a logical leap that is unsupported, and indeed unsupportable, by any known facts or evidence.
We can logically predict that it would have wiped out the Egyptians, the Chinese, the Greece, and many other societies known to have existed at the time, and yet it did not.
We can logically predict that it would have left a geological footprint that does not exist.
We can logically predict that it actually would have led to the extinction of all life on the planet, ark or no ark, as there would have been no food sources on the barren landscape for the ark dwellers to survive on, not to mention that the change in salinity of the "water world" would likely have killed every fish, mussel, crab, and other creature that lives in water.
And we can logically predict a genetic indication that we're all descended from the 8 family members on said boat if they somehow defied extinction, which does not exist.
And we can calculate the amount of water required to cover the globe to 18 cubits above the tip of Mt. Everest, and since we know how much water is on the globe, and since that number is a small fraction of the required amount, we can logically predict that it never happened.
Me, personally? No. But people who know enough about such things could. Furthermore, you can visit Japan in 500 or 1,000 years and find geological evidence of that tsunami, even if we plunge into the dark ages between now and then and lose our knowledge and technology.
Sure you could, prevailing ocean patterns are well known, and while they do vary, it is not by much. So, could you have said on this day at this time, debris will come ashore at this spot? Probably not with much accuracy. But to predict it would find it's way to a general area in a general timeframe is child's play for a person with access to the right information.
Scientists logically predicted that the solar flares would cause our electronics to malfunction. Guess what, it didn't happen. From my perspective, science is pretty darn inaccurate, and no surprise since fallible man is driving the boat. You can logically predict all you want. That doesn't mean you are 100% accurate all the time.
I love how you conveniently ignored the part about fish eating the plastic. Typical.
Again, unless you witnessed a global flood in person, you are merely taking an educated guess on how the physics would operate and what kind of evidence should have been left behind. A GUESS. This does not equate to indisputable proof that it never happened.
You are wrong. It is easy to calculate how much water would be required to fulfill the myth. This water does not exist on this planet. Water is a non-newtonian fluid, virtually incompressible and CANNOT HIDE.
Where did the water come from and where did it go?
Game Over.
Really, so you accounted for the springs of the deep too?
Genesis 7:11
n the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month--on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.
I guess you existed back then so you know exactly what that volume was then in the springs of the deep, huh?
If it please the assembled court, I'll re-direct, your honor:
TWD39, I have a question for you:
So. Here's your chance: be honest and truthful with me: do you really literally buy this stuff, hook, line & sinker?
Yes or No. (or, like so many Christians here, will you now find some Selective Evasion to not have to answer this with a simple Y or N? OK... We'll now see for sure, won't we?)
GopherIt Man! Show us the strength of the Lord, and your personal spiritual convictions!
I believe in a literal Genesis, a living Savior, and a real enemy known as Satan who has you so brainwashed. He's laughing and loving your attacks on Christianity.
Think I'm full of it?
Answer this, if God was truly real, would you bow down and serve Him, or give Him the finger and go to hell instead?
Really, so you accounted for the springs of the deep too?
Genesis 7:11
n the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month--on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.
I guess you existed back then so you know exactly what that volume was then in the springs of the deep, huh?
WHAT springs of the deep? You cannot just make up things into existence. Where did the water come from and where did it go?
See that up there in red? That is a CLAIM. You cannot use one CLAIM as evidence for another CLAIM. Basic stuff, lad.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
