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No pain no gain...I know, where I come from that is ridiculous.
But, hey, knock youself out. I mean if it works for you, great.
I believe, ask and receive...oh, oh, the strain of it....sorry, sarcasm alert...I don't do it often!
Forgive me his one time...
It's like Jesus came saying, " Toil and work your butt off to get anything or anywhere.."
But, he didn't. You all know what he said...ask and receive...if u ask for bread would your father give u a stone?
How much more would your Father in Heaven give you...he gives according to his riches.
But, as I said...if you want to work really hard (pain as u say)...ok.
But, life is pretty simple...love God, He loves you...draw nearer to Him and He draws nearer to you...His love is deep and boundless as the sea...
No, we don't miss that point at all. The blood sacrifice IS the point. The Jewish ritual sacrifice of animals became at some point, ihe reason why their messiah was crucified by Rome.
The animal sacrifices were commanded by God. The Messiah being crucified was the ultimate sacrifice.
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I don't know whether it was Peter who linked the floating of their messiah's spirit up to heaven to sit with God (with whom the messiah was not identical) with the need to forge a new covenant with God in order to redeem Israel, at that time under the rule of gentile unbelievers, or whether it was all Paul's own idea, that messiah Jesus by his obedience released man, by the shedding of his sacrificial blood, from the sin caused by Adam's disobedience. You don't need to take my word for it - read it yourself in Romans and after.
It was God that did it. Jesus established his church--and told the disciples to go forth and make disciples.
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Even in the gospels, though the messiah is animated by the Holy spirit of God, he isn't god himself and God's spirit buggers off as soon as Jesus is stapled up. God isn't going to sacrifice anything. It is the poor old man -messiah whoi is the sacrifice.
Of course he is. You completely miss the point if you don't see that.
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Not even the idea that the sacrifice has to be sinless and created by God rather than born of Joseph actually makes the messiah God. It is a later Christian development post Constantine, I guess, that it is God himself who sacrifices himself, though three days later the body gets up and walks.
Without a perfect, spotless sacrifice there is no way to pay for the sins of others. And yes--God the Father bruised and smited God the Son. God the son rose and walked 3 days later.
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Where do you think God was during those three days? Lying unconscious in a tomb? No, He was at the controls, running the universe as he always had.
God the Father was in Heaven. There are different theories of where God the Son was in that time.
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Think it through Vizza old chum and see how the blood sacrifice became -wwll the same thing, but dressed up in a lot of ectoplasm in order to make it look like God has sacrificed himself when in fact God sacrificed nothing - not even minor inconvenience.
God the Father had never been separated from God the Son. They are the same God. In that time on the cross God the Father turned his back on God the Son. Jesus dreaded that moment so much that he begged the Father for a way out in the Garden--and stressed to the point that he sweated drops of blood. That's a phenomenon that occurs when a person is so stressed that his blood vessels near the surface of the skin rupture and blood comes out the sweat glands.
You can suggest it was a mere inconvenience...but it was much more.
You guys are missing a huge point. Unlike other religions, Christianity is the only one that tells us that God initiated the forgiveness--but paying the penalty himself. The other religions have sacrifices of bulls, goats, chickens, children....but only Christianity has God sacrificing himself.
Yes, it was God's idea. Beginning in Genesis 3 we see the first prophecy that tells us that God will redeem his people.
The bible has stories describing how the Christian God also needed animal sacrifices for many generations. It is NOT only other Gods who wanted bulls, goats, and chickens. The same God you pray to today needed goats and chickens.
(To avoid distractions, I started to simply capitalize the word God when describing all Gods. I am aware that the grammar is not correct.)
The bible has stories describing how the Christian God also needed animal sacrifices for many generations. It is NOT only other Gods who wanted bulls, goats, and chickens. The same God you pray to today needed goats and chickens.
(To avoid distractions, I started to simply capitalize the word God when describing all Gods. I am aware that the grammar is not correct.)
As I said--yes, God required animal sacrifices. The other religions copied it. But the sacrifice of Christ was the ultimate sacrifice that solved it once and for all.
The animal sacrifices were commanded by God. The Messiah being crucified was the ultimate sacrifice.
It was God that did it. Jesus established his church--and told the disciples to go forth and make disciples.
Of course he is. You completely miss the point if you don't see that.
Without a perfect, spotless sacrifice there is no way to pay for the sins of others. And yes--God the Father bruised and smited God the Son. God the son rose and walked 3 days later.
God the Father was in Heaven. There are different theories of where God the Son was in that time.
God the Father had never been separated from God the Son. They are the same God. In that time on the cross God the Father turned his back on God the Son. Jesus dreaded that moment so much that he begged the Father for a way out in the Garden--and stressed to the point that he sweated drops of blood. That's a phenomenon that occurs when a person is so stressed that his blood vessels near the surface of the skin rupture and blood comes out the sweat glands.
You can suggest it was a mere inconvenience...but it was much more.
If, as you state God commanded blood sacrifice, he could easily break the commandment like he did so many of his other commandments. He could've easily have said, "if you ask me, I will forgive you and you can live with me forever in Heaven". But, the Bible doesn't say that he did, so instead humans have hoops to jump through, including compulsory love and agonizing fear for this god.
But, he didn't. You all know what he said...ask and receive...if u ask for bread would your father give u a stone?
How much more would your Father in Heaven give you...he gives according to his riches.
If, as you state God commanded blood sacrifice, he could easily break the commandment like he did so many of his other commandments. He could've easily have said, "if you ask me, I will forgive you and you can live with me forever in Heaven". But, the Bible doesn't say that he did, so instead humans have hoops to jump through, including compulsory love and agonizing fear for this god.
Actually, no. He would be a corrupt God if he went against what he commanded. Similar to a judge that lets a murderer go without punishment.
Was Primitive Man's itty, bitty brain just scared?
"Ooo, God in sky mad...make earth shake...kill goat...maybe make happy and stop..."
"Ooo, throw human heart into volcano...maybe not burst hot rocks for another year..."
Or could the Creator of Galaxies, Himself Pure Love want little bitty men to kill goats
to appease "Him"...a Spirit of Infinite Love?
It doesn't even make sense...except that it has been placed into the Human
psyche for eons from campfire stories....
This doesn't lessen how wonderful Jesus was or his teachings or our love of our
Father...it increases our understanding to only love Him MORE!
Imo.
Talk amongst yourselves....
How does this increase our understanding to love him more?
Actually, no. He would be a corrupt God if he went against what he commanded. Similar to a judge that lets a murderer go without punishment.
Did not God command "Thou shalt not kill"? and "Thou shalt not steal" Yet he ordered the Israelites to kill, or murder, the Canaanites, even the innocent children and take their property. Did he not supposedly drown every person on the face of the earth, including children and babies, in and outside of the womb? God supposedly also killed the first born of all the Egyptians, adults and children alike.
Did not God command "Honor thy father and thy mother"?
Luke 14:26 says "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple."
Did not God command " Do not lie"? Yet, Jesus told his brothers to go to Jerusalem without him, because he was not going for the feast, and he went anyway just after his brothers left.
John 7:8 You go up to the feast. I am not[a] going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.” 9 After saying this, he remained in Galilee. 10 But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private.
Yes, I agree that any god such as this would be corrupt and this has been easily shown that the bible god did exactly that.
No pain no gain...I know, where I come from that is ridiculous.
But, hey, knock youself out. I mean if it works for you, great.
I believe, ask and receive...oh, oh, the strain of it....sorry, sarcasm alert...I don't do it often!
Forgive me his one time...
It's like Jesus came saying, " Toil and work your butt off to get anything or anywhere.."
But, he didn't. You all know what he said...ask and receive...if u ask for bread would your father give u a stone?
How much more would your Father in Heaven give you...he gives according to his riches.
But, as I said...if you want to work really hard (pain as u say)...ok.
But, life is pretty simple...love God, He loves you...draw nearer to Him and He draws nearer to you...His love is deep and boundless as the sea...
This post gave me a flashback to something I created for myself a few years ago: an obstacle course. I forgot about it until now tbh. My ego is attached to the feeling of overcoming challenges because it enjoys the feeling of "hard earned" victory. There was a time when everything in my life felt like smooth sailing and it all felt too easy and I said in my heart, "I want challenges to overcome." And challenges I did receive. :/ This year was all challenge. Lol and yes, I overcame and everyone around me knows it was a "hard earned victory". But now I say in my heart, "I want to enjoy my next two years".
There is strife in the world. We create it. But life is pretty simple and I feel a great connection to Solomon in Ecclesiastes for this very reason.
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