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I suppose maybe some of you misunderstood my original post. Looking at the responses, it seems to me that some of you feel as if I am blaming God for something that happened. Well, no, I don't blame "God" as in the divine god of any religion. I'd first have to believe in him to blame him, or her if you prefer.
My point was that although I went to Ground Zero with a preconceived notion that there was no God, looking at the pictures on the wall made me realize that if there were a God than I do in fact despise him for letting this happen.
Many say "It was man who did it not God." And to that I say you are correct. Man should be held responsible for everything done that day. From the people who ignored the warnings to the people who flew the planes into the building, man should be held responsible.
The thing you need to understand from my point of view is that to me religion is man-made. God is man-made to me. The whole premise of a watchful eye in the sky (not to mention thought reader) is an entirely human creation to me. What's sad is that one of man's own creations (religion and/or God) served as a vehicle to provide an excuse for the actions that ensued on 9/11.
However, it was my musing on the subject that although I already thought with a 99% certainty that God did not exist before going to the World Trade Center, that if there were indeed a God of any religion, he is surely to blame for this as well. I cannot, however, blame a non-existent thing for letting something happen. I can only reassure myself that he doesn't exist and realize that thankfully I don't have to answer to the beckon and call of such an idea. And it is with that that I am now 99.9999999(repeating) percent certain he does not exist.
So it's like saying that since I didn't get a PS3 for Christmas, that IF Santa existed, I'm mad at him.. but since he doesn't, I'm mad at mom and dad.
I finally made it up to NYC this past weekend. My wife and I went to the World Trade Centers. My first thought upon seeing Ground Zero was subtle amazement.
My first thought walking into the memorial building brought it into perspective for me. On one wall are photocopies of the actual missing posters of many of the people.
On another wall, behind a glass case, are pictures of the people that died. Well, about half of them. It was then that I realized, looking into all those bright shining faces who had so much taken away from them that God must certainly not exist.
I can understand perhaps the difference in good and evil in a childish concept of mischief vs. good. But, is it so necessary to take away almost 3000 people in one fell swoop? Is it entirely necessary to allow things like that to occur? Was it necessary for each one of those families to experience the tragedies that they did? All for what? What was God's purpose for that?
Was it to get people closer to him? Was it to allow people to see him better? To ask him questions? To allow people to commit atrocities like that in HIS name? No, I say. No!
There is no such thing as God. Something like that was not necessary. Sometimes you don't realize the true tragedy until you can experience it in some small way. If there is a God, than I want no part of him for he is as wicked as the men who flew those airplanes into the building for allowing it to happen.
please do not let poor national security make an atheist out of you.
we knew bout 911 before it ever happened. it was disregarded.
proper standard military security precautions would have prevented pearl harbor from occuring. radar was disregarded. standard scramble formation for grounded planes was disregarded. god did not do it.
cut him some slack.
[quote=nvxplorer;1945991]I wasn't necessarily referring to your personal beliefs.
Islamists will claim that destroying the WTC was a directive from God. Others will claim that directive came from Satan, as it appears you have done. The Muslim God is the god of Abraham, which just so happens to be the same God that Christians and Jews worship. To me, an outsider, it appears we have a contradiction.[/quote
Islam extremists claim it was a direction from God..Not all islam are extremists..I stand on my belief ( and you are right)that God is the God of Islam, Christians, Jewish and many other believers.
please do not let poor national security make an atheist out of you.
we knew bout 911 before it ever happened. it was disregarded.
proper standard military security precautions would have prevented pearl harbor from occuring. radar was disregarded. standard scramble formation for grounded planes was disregarded. god did not do it.
cut him some slack.
Believe me, I was an atheist before I ever went there. And, I can't remember exactly when I swore off God, but I'm pretty sure it was before 9/11.
please do not let poor national security make an atheist out of you.
we knew bout 911 before it ever happened. it was disregarded.
proper standard military security precautions would have prevented pearl harbor from occuring. radar was disregarded. standard scramble formation for grounded planes was disregarded. god did not do it.
cut him some slack.
addendum
i know god is with america because we continue to be attacked by stupid people. the mid east caught us dead asleep. they screwed up the attack on DC and they screwed up the attack on the pentagon.
the japanese screwed up bad on pearl harbor and yamamoto said so
they were supposed to blow up the flat tops. they were not even there.
6 weeks later we blew theirs to bits in midway. all they did was make us angry. our enemies continue you to be slow an incompentent people.
this is good. they caught us utterly flat footed i mean their best shoot and they still blew it. obviously god is with us.
I find it amazing that you can relegate the loss of 3000 human lives to not getting a PS3 for Christmas.
Where did I do that?
I'm making an analogy, you know that.
It upsets me that I try and draw an analogy and you accuse me of being flip about 9/11.
That takes a very special person.
For the record to everyone else, I view the loss of life on 9/11 to be one of the most tragic events in our nation's great history. My heart, prayers, and assistance has gone out and will continue to do so to those effected by this cowardly act.
I hope I didn't need to defend myself, but since my post was countered by a personal slur, I felt I would 'go on the record'.
The problem with the god hypothesis is that it suggests that if you live a moral and just life then you will be rewarded with good fortune and won't be affected by problems that afflict others. That if you pray, believe in a mythical character named Jesus (which there is zero evidence of outside the bible), and go to church, you'll somehow be immune to the injustices, cruelties, and tragedies of the world.
We know, however, that this is far from the truth. Do you think the people on September 11 thought they would die that day? Absolutely not. These people could be anyone, they could be your or I. Christians I find have a quite frankly, a lack of regard for human life (evident from some posts in this thread), from my personal experience.
As they believe that the "miracle" of life is nothing but a prerequisite to the real life--a life of eternity in the clouds with a bearded man who can see and knows everything. I think this is a very destructive mindset because it keeps one from living up to their full potential and always allows for a crutch or something to fall back on when one doesn't live up to their life goals or expectations.
For example, "I didn't accomplish my goals in life because god didn't see them fit". Or, "she died because god was ready to take her". These kinds of statements are not only inaccurate, but fail to accept the notion of reality and ignore the real causes of a particular event.
The problem with it is that religion states that god is omnipresent and omnipotent and has complete control over everything as he can see everything.
It also states that he values and rewards good behavior. If this be the case, why then do tragedies happen every day? It doesn't make any sense.
Somehow I believe that if such atrocities had happened to you or someone you knew, you'd feel differently about god--it seems as though when it's someone else's misforunte, Christians collectively make excuses for god and say, "he can't control everything".
Yet you ignore the notion that god is omnipresent, is omnipotent, and has control of everything. So, essentially, you've suggested that your god is in fact not the upstanding, moral, and just man you claim him to be.
That he's in fact a jealous, hateful, spiteful, and evil god who allows bad things to happen to seemingly good people on a daily basis.
I would just add that to the contrary, Jesus didn't promise that His followers would have a "bed of roses." He, in fact, said that in this world, we would have tribulation... (Not a promise we post on our refrigerator but true none the less.)
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