Atheist 'mega-churches' take root across US, world (Revelations, communion, believing)
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They acted like true Christians and Deists. Allowing Atheists to live happily by separating the Priests from the Kings. Allowing all religions to be happy by preventing majority oppression of minority views. If religious signs are allowed in public places so should Atheists ones, but the religionists are too hateful and faithless to live with constant reminders that their pillars of sand are just false religions.
What the founders DID was write documents representing their official views, how they "acted" was owning slaves and being drunks, as well as exercising their unique freedoms, not barring others from theirs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC
You mean an actions like writing laws creating a separation of church and state, I assume.
What's with this YAY-RAH-RAH of the so-called "Founding Fathers"...and this somehow delusional idea that because they fronted with con-job speeches and writings, they ACTUALLY DID keep religion out of the government, and the government out of religion?
They weren't the solution...they were the problem!!
Imagine if we did things now...the way they did things then! Do you think people would say, "Now THERE is a TRUE separation of church and state"?
No way!...MOF they'd be freaking out!--Holding mass in the government buildings! Paying to build church's and convert the Native People (the one's you didn't slaughter) to Christianity! Printing and distributing Bibles and using it as the main textbook in the schools! Plastering "God" (Biblegod, that is) all over EVERYTHING! Yeah, that's reeeeeeeal "secular"!
OH!...but let's exalt those guys as the poster-children for "Separating Church and State"! Give me a break!
It was those so-called "Founding Fathers" that knitted religion into the fabric of the new government and society they were creating in place of the one they destroyed through genocidal force. And they did such a good job of it...it's still here over 200 years later.
I'm Theist...and I perceive a "God force and energy" that is the source and essence of everything...but that is my UNIQUE & PERSONAL belief. The people in government should not interject their UNIQUE & PERSONAL belief into the way they function in their representative capacity, or in the decisions they make as to how they vote on things. Recently there has been a tiny bit of progress to have things conform to the temporal model it is legally supposed to be.
But the "Founding Father Effect" that put its mojo on this land will be tuff, if not impossible to break!
Actually, 'church' is a form of the Old English cir(i)ce, cyr(i)ce, related to Dutch kerk and German Kirche, based on medieval Greek kurikon, from Greek kuriakon (dōma) ‘Lord's (house)’, from kurios ‘master or lord’.
The definitions to which I have immediate access indicate that 'church' didn't include Christianity until aboutr 300 CE, and even then, other Greek terms were more common and widely used.
The word Church drips Christian. Don't even try to go there. The Christians own that word and you know it. The reason they used atheist church was for the laugh ability of it all. It's such a contradiction. It's a bit ridiculous to try and make it work for real, come on now. It was a joke, and a funny one. Making it become a meaningful thing is like the Scientologist making aliens into creators. "Not-even-close-BUD"
The word Church drips Christian. Don't even try to go there. The Christians own that word and you know it. The reason they used atheist church was for the laugh ability of it all. It's such a contradiction. It's a bit ridiculous to try and make it work for real, come on now. It was a joke, and a funny one. Making it become a meaningful thing is like the Scientologist making aliens into creators. "Not-even-close-BUD"
Too late, I already went there
My post was intended to correct a perceived misunderstanding of the linguistic origin of the word 'church'.
And could you please dial down the hostility? I'm relatively certain I wasn't attempting to start a war.
Separation of church and state is not the exact wording used in the Constitution, but that is exactly what the founding fathers meant. Check the writings of Jefferson, John Adams, and James Madison.
Nobody is trying to get rid of Christians. It is usually Christians that are trying to impose their religion on the rest of society, so the ACLU, American Atheists, or some other organization has to file a lawsuit to make the government do what it is supposed to do. If your faith is so weak that you need to have the ten commandments on display at the courthouse, you need to examine your faith. Those who do not share your faith should not have it forced on them. I recently had the opportunity to watch the US Senate on TV. The opening prayer was pretty generic as far as religious representations go. When the invocation at a high school graduation sounds like this, very few would have any complaint. When it sounds like a fundamental Baptist minister, there will be complaints from those who take offense to the fundamental Baptist fire and brimstone speeches.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule
The "writings"?!
Yeah...that is always known to count for a lot when it comes to what people really think/feel about something. NOT!!
Try checking out what they DID...and how they acted.
I submit: That is a much better indicator.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth
They acted like true Christians and Deists. Allowing Atheists to live happily by separating the Priests from the Kings. Allowing all religions to be happy by preventing majority oppression of minority views. If religious signs are allowed in public places so should Atheists ones, but the religionists are too hateful and faithless to live with constant reminders that their pillars of sand are just false religions.
What the founders DID was write documents representing their official views, how they "acted" was owning slaves and being drunks, as well as exercising their unique freedoms, not barring others from theirs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC
You mean an actions like writing laws creating a separation of church and state, I assume.
What's with this YAY-RAH-RAH of the so-called "Founding Fathers"...and this somehow delusional idea that because they fronted with con-job speeches and writings, they ACTUALLY DID keep religion out of the government, and the government out of religion?
They weren't the solution...they were the problem!!
Imagine if we did things now...the way they did things then! Do you think people would say, "Now THERE is a TRUE separation of church and state"?
No way!...MOF they'd be freaking out!--Holding mass in the government buildings! Paying to build church's and convert the Native People (the one's you didn't slaughter) to Christianity! Printing and distributing Bibles and using it as the main textbook in the schools! Plastering "God" (Biblegod, that is) all over EVERYTHING! Yeah, that's reeeeeeeal "secular"!
OH!...but let's exalt those guys as the poster-children for "Separating Church and State"! Give me a break!
It was those so-called "Founding Fathers" that knitted religion into the fabric of the new government and society they were creating in place of the one they destroyed through genocidal force. And they did such a good job of it...it's still here over 200 years later.
I'm Theist...and I perceive a "God force and energy" that is the source and essence of everything...but that is my UNIQUE & PERSONAL belief. The people in government should not interject their UNIQUE & PERSONAL belief into the way they function in their representative capacity, or in the decisions they make as to how they vote on things. Recently there has been a tiny bit of progress to have things conform to the temporal model it is legally supposed to be.
But the "Founding Father Effect" that put its mojo on this land will be tuff, if not impossible to break!
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC
No, I have no idea what you are ranting about this time.
You have no idea KC?
Well, think on this...it will help you get the idea:
If all that was required of men to do to demonstrate "exactly what they meant" and gain full verification of their "official views & intentions", and furthermore "create" a particular condition and/or circumstance...was to simply "write laws" and "write documents"...you and many others on this board owe the Bible Literalist Fundies a big apology.
Why is it a good argument to tell Bible Literalists that "just because men wrote something in the Bible does not necessarily make it so"...but that same argument doesn't hold for the men that wrote things in the early documents of the U.S. Government?
They acted like true Christians and Deists. Allowing Atheists to live happily by separating the Priests from the Kings. Allowing all religions to be happy by preventing majority oppression of minority views. If religious signs are allowed in public places so should Atheists ones, but the religionists are too hateful and faithless to live with constant reminders that their pillars of sand are just false religions.
What the founders DID was write documents representing their official views, how they "acted" was owning slaves and being drunks, as well as exercising their unique freedoms, not barring others from theirs.
HUH?!
What more could one do to "bar others from their unique freedom" than enslave them?
What they wrote meant squat to what they really thought...actions speak way louder than words.
They were as full of it as any group of dudes that ever lived! Tough to find worse than them in all human history.
They almost wiped out a whole human race just to steal what they had! Nice way for them to "prevent oppression"!
You may want to rethink things a bit here LT.
Well, here...I've got sumthin easy for you to understand:
What is written in "the documents" is just paper and ink...and doesn't mean SQUAT to what their REAL game was. What they wrote was a "smokescreen".
What they ACTUALLY did...is REALITY.
They were politicians. As typical...they do what they said & wrote they wouldn't...and fail to do what they said and wrote they would.
That's standard politician conduct: Especially from the ultra religion promoting, slave owning, female oppressing, genocidal barbarian kind like those so-called "Founding Fathers".
Those evil dudes were the "poster children" of government officials trying to inculcate the society with religion.
Never mind "separation"...they did everything they could do to link it up! And they SUCCEEDED!
The reason this country has been, and still is, so religious...is because of THEM!
The NDNs (that they nearly wiped out) were not at all religious...So, how do you think the country became that way? Answer THAT...and it will all "make much sense" to ya.
Well, here...I've got sumthin easy for you to understand:
What is written in "the documents" is just paper and ink...and doesn't mean SQUAT to what their REAL game was. What they wrote was a "smokescreen".
What they ACTUALLY did...is REALITY.
Such as creating a secular nation.
Again, no idea what your point is.
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