Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That is the veil of ignorance over reading the OT that Jesus came to lift. It is why Christ's demonstration needed to be so dramatic and unambiguous. God IS agape love and Jesus displayed it in all its perfection . . . loving even His torturers and murderers. It is only the perversion of men that corrupted His Good News Gospel of a God who IS agape love into a barbaric blood sacrifice to appease the wrathful God of the OT. It is a travesty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn
Is turning over vendor tables considered as displaying agape love? Is advising his followers to forsake their families considered displaying agape love? Jesus was the first to mention Hell in the Bible and the everlasting place of punishment for sinners. Is this considered displaying agape love? As Bertrand Russell put it,
"There is one very serious defect to my mind in Christ's moral character, and that is that He believed in hell. I do not myself feel that any person who is really profoundly humane can believe in everlasting punishment. Christ certainly as depicted in the Gospels did believe in everlasting punishment, and one does find repeatedly a vindictive fury against those people who would not listen to His preaching—an attitude which is not uncommon with preachers, but which does somewhat detract from superlative excellence. You do not, for instance find that attitude in Socrates. You find him quite bland and urbane toward the people who would not listen to him; and it is, to my mind, far more worthy of a sage to take that line than to take the line of indignation. "
These, along with the Bible Jesus' refusal to denounce slavery shows that he wasn't very moral person, one certainly not worthy of worship. At best he was an apathetic passive person, dangerously advocating the forgiving of acts as despicable as rape and murder.
The very fact that you can make such distinctions even about those things attributed to Jesus indicates that we DO have the ability to apply the Spirit of agape love correctly. That is WHY we are to test everything against the Spirit of agape love who IS God . . . even those things mistakenly attributed to Jesus. Jesus gave us the perfect and completely unambiguous demonstration of the agape love of God . . . even unto scourging and crucifixion. There is no confusion and we can apply that absolute standard of agape love to everything to know what is and is not compatible with and acceptable to God. Even a child can do it . . . or a heathen as you have done.
Well...somebody needs to get a butt-whoopin'. That's like typing a news article about Michael Jordan and inadvertently typing SERIAL MURDERER as the headline, rather than GREATEST BASKETBALL PLAYER?
That's one heck of a typo, ain't it?
The messenger of Allah Lut (Lot) was not telling his people to rape his daughters instead of his guests
but all the women of his people are considered his daughters and he was telling them to marry them .
read what is in green again
And his people came rushing towards him, and since aforetime they used to commit crimes (sodomy),
he said: "O my people! Here are my daughters (i.e. the women of the nation), they are purer for you (if you marry them lawfully).
So fear Allah and degrace me not with regard to my guests! Is there not among you a single right-minded man?" The Holy Quran 11.78
Why Allaah creates mentally disabled people
Praise be to Allaah.
One of the basic principles of Islam is to believe in the wisdom of the Lord in what He creates and commands, and in...... Why Allaah creates mentally disabled people - islamqa.info
*******************************************
Why Allaah creates mentally disabled people
Praise be to Allaah.
One of the basic principles of Islam is to believe in the wisdom of the Lord in what He creates and commands, and in...... Why Allaah creates mentally disabled people - islamqa.info
*******************************************
Shirina can answer for herself...but I'm more sure there's no hell than I am that I won't get struck by lightning seven times...because that has happened before, but I've never witnessed an alternate dimension that might be a hell before. I don't know how it would exist. I don't know what we know exists that points to its existence.
read The Holy Quran it has every thing
15 Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his ownself.
And whoever goes astray, then he goes astray to his own loss.
No one laden with burdens can bear another's burden. And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning).The Holy Quran 17.15
The messenger of Allah Lut (Lot) was not telling his people to rape his daughters instead of his guests
but all the women of his people are considered his daughters and he was telling them to marry them .
read what is in green again
And his people came rushing towards him, and since aforetime they used to commit crimes (sodomy),
he said: "O my people! Here are my daughters (i.e. the women of the nation), they are purer for you (if you marry them lawfully).
So fear Allah and degrace me not with regard to my guests! Is there not among you a single right-minded man?" The Holy Quran 11.78
I'm not familiar with the Quran so tell me, who inserted the green? Is it IN the Quran or an interpretation?
Quick research tells me the green has been added so as to excuse the actual text.
The very fact that you can make such distinctions even about those things attributed to Jesus indicates that we DO have the ability to apply the Spirit of agape love correctly. That is WHY we are to test everything against the Spirit of agape love who IS God . . . even those things mistakenly attributed to Jesus. Jesus gave us the perfect and completely unambiguous demonstration of the agape love of God . . . even unto scourging and crucifixion. There is no confusion and we can apply that absolute standard of agape love to everything to know what is and is not compatible with and acceptable to God. Even a child can do it . . . or a heathen as you have done.
You're either avoiding the question or attempting to explain these acts away by using the presuppositionist's circular logic. "Jesus could not have done these things because he demonstrates the perfection of agape love." You are picking and choosing the parts of the Bible that agree with your belief, claiming that the rest didn't happen. There is no more evidence that Jesus, if he existed, was crucified than there is for him overturning the merchant tables in the temple or the Noah's ark story, yet you continue to make these unfounded claims as fact.
Though one can legitimately claim love as God, this has no bearing on the legitimacy of the claims about Jesus, his actions, and/or his divinity. Since love is not supernatural nor capable of creating the universe, Jesus' "sacrifice" would be irrelevant.
I'm not familiar with the Quran so tell me, who inserted the green? Is it IN the Quran or an interpretation?
Quick research tells me the green has been added so as to excuse the actual text.
the text that in green is in not part of the original Arabic text but it was put there by the translator to clarify the verse for the reader s
and not misunderstand the real intention meaning and it was put between brackets
15 Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his ownself.
And whoever goes astray, then he goes astray to his own loss.
No one laden with burdens can bear another's burden. And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning).The Holy Quran 17.15
Well, that's civilized not to punish without warning. That's right up there with Eusebius's ideas of universal salvation in terms of civility.
I have not read the majority of any translations of the Qur'an, and have read none of it in Arabic so far. However, I don't consider a piece of literature to be a form of warning even if it does explain the exact diameter of our sun to the nearest mile. I see no reason to believe a creator would place proof of its existence in a piece of literature, so why should anyone look for it in a piece of literature?
Reading the Qur'an, and the Bible, is advisable because both had such an enormous influence on history. It allows us to better understand how people think. If someone never gets around to it, they're guilty of not seeking to understand their fellow human beings. I don't see them as guilty of failing to search for evidence of hell though...anymore than anyone is guilty of that for not checking the interior of their car's gas tank for the creator.
I suspect I'm pretty safe, and your statement reassures me of that. I intend to get around to reading multiple translations of the Qur'an eventually though.
the text that in green is in not part of the original Arabic text but it was put there by the translator to clarify the verse for the reader s
and not misunderstand the real intention meaning and it was put between brackets
In other words, yes, this is just an interpretation.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
